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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Herschel" data-source="post: 5960541" data-attributes="member: 78357"><p>4E actually moved AWAY from simple damage output being the measure of combat effectiveness, nor is it the be all-end all of balance as it was in 1E, 2E and 3E. They actually codified and quantified the roles that were always present in the game so that different classes could do different things than just "I duz damage R0XX0RS!". Defending characters got abilities that actually helped them defend, Leaders got to still heal but got to do other things too and Controllers still got all their goodies but didn't also do all the damage any more. </p><p> </p><p>The "how much damage can I do" has always been around. When dual-wielding first came out and Rangers could wield two one-handed weapons people inevitably went for two Long Swords and talked about any other choice not being very good. The internet just opened up these conversations to forums. </p><p> </p><p> Again you're operating under a false assumption, especially concerning 4E which has a popular Pacifist Cleric that can't attack a bloodied enemy or else become stunned. </p><p> </p><p>There's also the problem of adjudication. A good system gives you examples of how to adjudicate things. In 4E you can stick to your powers as written, or do whatever you want, but as a DM it's nice to have examples to compare to. </p><p> </p><p> I've had it both ways, it's highly DM and game dependent as well as player dependent. If wannabe actor boy starts going on a tangent and the DM rolls with it, it can be fun, or it might only be fun for the two of them. If you have to invade a fortress you're going to be facing combat after combat for a while. </p><p> </p><p> Again, this isn't a 4E issue, higher level fights in 3E took just as long or longer, heck b buffing time and a single save-or-die spell could suck up huge amounts of real world time. It's game, player and DM dependent. Combats in 4E are as long as the players make them. One issue with powers and a myriad of choices though is that the players actually have to pay attention. Unlike 1E if a player's not paying attention and just says "I attack with my sword" or "I shoot a Magic Missile" they get looked at much differently because there are presented powers and examples of many more things they could be doing rather than just that. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>4E is no different from ANY other edition in that aspect. You can play whatever type of game you want with it because the fundamental system is much stronger than any of its predecessors, as it should be. The issue many of us are having with 5E is that they don't appear to be taking a step forward but regressing to a weaker underlying system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herschel, post: 5960541, member: 78357"] 4E actually moved AWAY from simple damage output being the measure of combat effectiveness, nor is it the be all-end all of balance as it was in 1E, 2E and 3E. They actually codified and quantified the roles that were always present in the game so that different classes could do different things than just "I duz damage R0XX0RS!". Defending characters got abilities that actually helped them defend, Leaders got to still heal but got to do other things too and Controllers still got all their goodies but didn't also do all the damage any more. The "how much damage can I do" has always been around. When dual-wielding first came out and Rangers could wield two one-handed weapons people inevitably went for two Long Swords and talked about any other choice not being very good. The internet just opened up these conversations to forums. Again you're operating under a false assumption, especially concerning 4E which has a popular Pacifist Cleric that can't attack a bloodied enemy or else become stunned. There's also the problem of adjudication. A good system gives you examples of how to adjudicate things. In 4E you can stick to your powers as written, or do whatever you want, but as a DM it's nice to have examples to compare to. I've had it both ways, it's highly DM and game dependent as well as player dependent. If wannabe actor boy starts going on a tangent and the DM rolls with it, it can be fun, or it might only be fun for the two of them. If you have to invade a fortress you're going to be facing combat after combat for a while. Again, this isn't a 4E issue, higher level fights in 3E took just as long or longer, heck b buffing time and a single save-or-die spell could suck up huge amounts of real world time. It's game, player and DM dependent. Combats in 4E are as long as the players make them. One issue with powers and a myriad of choices though is that the players actually have to pay attention. Unlike 1E if a player's not paying attention and just says "I attack with my sword" or "I shoot a Magic Missile" they get looked at much differently because there are presented powers and examples of many more things they could be doing rather than just that. 4E is no different from ANY other edition in that aspect. You can play whatever type of game you want with it because the fundamental system is much stronger than any of its predecessors, as it should be. The issue many of us are having with 5E is that they don't appear to be taking a step forward but regressing to a weaker underlying system. [/QUOTE]
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