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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 5960639" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>Barbarians don't have d12 HD because they're dense; neither to dragons. But they do have it for a reason. Perhaps because of physical superiority, or perhaps because of luck/skill/will/etc.; this goes to the vagueness of hit poitns. But there is a reason, in both cases. The reason is not "because that's balanced" or because it fills a mechanical niche, but something relating to the in-game reality.</p><p></p><p>Actually, 3e drew the curtain back. It said that what really matters about a monster is what it is relative to the reality of the world, not relative to one group of player characters. What really matters is how strong it is, how smart it is, how magical it is, not how balanced of an encounter it is.</p><p></p><p>The problem for others is that this isn't an illusion. If my monsters weren't designed by the same rules as their characters, they'd know it, and they'd call B.S. on it. And they'd be right. What is the point playing two different games at once, one for the DM and one for the players? If everyone's not playing by the same rules, what's the point of having rules at all? If the rules aren't there to describe reality and make the outcomes fait, why not play without them?</p><p></p><p>I stopped using CR because I realized that the challenge a monster posed to the PC was only peripherally relevant to how I was going to use it. And XP, for that matter. My encounters are not even close to balanced.</p><p></p><p>That's one perspective. Here's another:</p><p>The ambiguity and diversity of older editions' rules let people cultivate a variety of philosophies. 4e didn't reveal an approach to monster design that was always there, it picked one out of the many that were always there, and effectively excluded the others. For those that enjoyed this approach (i.e. monsters as cardboard cutouts designed to challenge PCs for less than a minute and then die), this is okay. For those who had a different idea, the response is: "What? This is all an rpg can be?"</p><p></p><p>It's sort of like watching The Matrix, getting a thrill as Neo shoots into the sky and an uncertain future, and then watching the sequels. Really, that's what they were thinking? The version of what happens next in my imagination (my illusion, if you will) was <em>so much better</em>. A world of possibilities becomes one really lame reality.</p><p></p><p>I used to think of monsters as being just challenges to the PCs, but now I use them as characters as part of a story, in part because of the 3.5 monster/character design rules. I can't imagine going back/having that taken away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 5960639, member: 17106"] Barbarians don't have d12 HD because they're dense; neither to dragons. But they do have it for a reason. Perhaps because of physical superiority, or perhaps because of luck/skill/will/etc.; this goes to the vagueness of hit poitns. But there is a reason, in both cases. The reason is not "because that's balanced" or because it fills a mechanical niche, but something relating to the in-game reality. Actually, 3e drew the curtain back. It said that what really matters about a monster is what it is relative to the reality of the world, not relative to one group of player characters. What really matters is how strong it is, how smart it is, how magical it is, not how balanced of an encounter it is. The problem for others is that this isn't an illusion. If my monsters weren't designed by the same rules as their characters, they'd know it, and they'd call B.S. on it. And they'd be right. What is the point playing two different games at once, one for the DM and one for the players? If everyone's not playing by the same rules, what's the point of having rules at all? If the rules aren't there to describe reality and make the outcomes fait, why not play without them? I stopped using CR because I realized that the challenge a monster posed to the PC was only peripherally relevant to how I was going to use it. And XP, for that matter. My encounters are not even close to balanced. That's one perspective. Here's another: The ambiguity and diversity of older editions' rules let people cultivate a variety of philosophies. 4e didn't reveal an approach to monster design that was always there, it picked one out of the many that were always there, and effectively excluded the others. For those that enjoyed this approach (i.e. monsters as cardboard cutouts designed to challenge PCs for less than a minute and then die), this is okay. For those who had a different idea, the response is: "What? This is all an rpg can be?" It's sort of like watching The Matrix, getting a thrill as Neo shoots into the sky and an uncertain future, and then watching the sequels. Really, that's what they were thinking? The version of what happens next in my imagination (my illusion, if you will) was [I]so much better[/I]. A world of possibilities becomes one really lame reality. I used to think of monsters as being just challenges to the PCs, but now I use them as characters as part of a story, in part because of the 3.5 monster/character design rules. I can't imagine going back/having that taken away. [/QUOTE]
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