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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5961094" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>A quick look at the online SRD tells me that a Great Wyrm Red Dragon has a +39 natural AC bonus. What does that mean, in the fiction? I think it's utterly transparent that that number has been assigned to the dragon simply for balance purposes (ie to put its AC at some number that is deemed appropriate for a CR 26 monster.</p><p></p><p>This is a red herring. I also use monsters and NPCs as story elements. But the story I'm interested in doesn't depend upon the mechanics telling me how much of a hobgoblin captain's attack bonus is raw, and how much skill (if that distinction even makes sense).</p><p></p><p>Hussar, of course you're right about how DCs are set, in modules and in the skill charts themselves - they're set with level appropriateness in mind. But the game rules present them as something else (this is CJ's illusionism point, as I understand it).</p><p></p><p>I think the fact that 4e makes this overt, and then builds a whole resolution engine on top of it that is flexible and transparent and therefore useable, makes a big difference. There is no need to push against the rules and the way they present themselves. And, as [MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION] said, you can drop several hoops out of the otherwise convoluted build rules.</p><p></p><p>I guess I see some of the same differences that Imaro and BedrockGames see, but as strengths, not flaws.</p><p></p><p>I think a game like Rolemaster is a "rules as physics" game that doesn't (or, at least, needn't) have an illusionist goal (it can be played in an illusionist fashion, though, and you can go to the ICE forums and see plenty of people talking about the game in that way). You don't need to "pretend" that the story elements (like kobolds) have a certain character, and rely on GM fiat to achieve it - within certain limits, the mechanics in play will actually deliver the desired story. (I think 4e and BW are both better-designed games than Rolemastter in this respect, but RM is not too bad, particularly for a 30-year old game.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5961094, member: 42582"] A quick look at the online SRD tells me that a Great Wyrm Red Dragon has a +39 natural AC bonus. What does that mean, in the fiction? I think it's utterly transparent that that number has been assigned to the dragon simply for balance purposes (ie to put its AC at some number that is deemed appropriate for a CR 26 monster. This is a red herring. I also use monsters and NPCs as story elements. But the story I'm interested in doesn't depend upon the mechanics telling me how much of a hobgoblin captain's attack bonus is raw, and how much skill (if that distinction even makes sense). Hussar, of course you're right about how DCs are set, in modules and in the skill charts themselves - they're set with level appropriateness in mind. But the game rules present them as something else (this is CJ's illusionism point, as I understand it). I think the fact that 4e makes this overt, and then builds a whole resolution engine on top of it that is flexible and transparent and therefore useable, makes a big difference. There is no need to push against the rules and the way they present themselves. And, as [MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION] said, you can drop several hoops out of the otherwise convoluted build rules. I guess I see some of the same differences that Imaro and BedrockGames see, but as strengths, not flaws. I think a game like Rolemaster is a "rules as physics" game that doesn't (or, at least, needn't) have an illusionist goal (it can be played in an illusionist fashion, though, and you can go to the ICE forums and see plenty of people talking about the game in that way). You don't need to "pretend" that the story elements (like kobolds) have a certain character, and rely on GM fiat to achieve it - within certain limits, the mechanics in play will actually deliver the desired story. (I think 4e and BW are both better-designed games than Rolemastter in this respect, but RM is not too bad, particularly for a 30-year old game.) [/QUOTE]
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