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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 5961621" data-attributes="member: 32536"><p>There is a big difference between saying that it is bad to chase after nostalgia at the expense of good game design and ignoring the entirety of a brand's value. It is fine to make nods to tradition and it is important to build upon the past, but it isn't good to completely reject the new or to preserve clear flaws of past designs simply because the past as a whole is considered sacrosanct.</p><p></p><p>In other words, you are extending my comments beyond what I intended and are pushing things too greatly to extremes.</p><p></p><p>Also, I've got my fan loyalties, and regardless making attacks that I'm "the worst kind of fan" is just plain rude.</p><p></p><p>Huh? Well, yeah, this is absolutely true. As I said, the quality of a game's design is based almost entirely on how well the rules suit the design goals. I don't know what you're trying to get at here...</p><p></p><p>Again, I must say... Huh? You logic makes no sense. I'm not begging the question at all when I say that 4E's goal was to please the fans who had problems with 3E's klunkiness and lack of balance (and there were <em>many</em> throughout 3E's life), and that it did a great job of appealing to those fans. The rest of what you say is simply incoherent and nonsensical. I think you failed to understand my point.</p><p></p><p>I'll say it again. The quality of a game design is measured entirely by how well it pleases its target audience.</p><p></p><p>Do you honestly disbelieve the idea that objective measurement can be made of subjective thoughts and feelings? You do realize this means that you disbelieve in the legitimacy of statistics, polls, market research, psychology, sociology, linguistics, and medicine, correct? It isn't like the idea of measuring "fun" or "happiness" by adding up a bunch of subjective opinions is remotely controversial outside of places like ENWorld where people refuse to believe that game design is a real thing. People accumulate data like this all of the time throughout the world. How on Earth is it suddenly a questionable act when it comes to the tiny little world of tabletop RPG enjoyment?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TwinBahamut, post: 5961621, member: 32536"] There is a big difference between saying that it is bad to chase after nostalgia at the expense of good game design and ignoring the entirety of a brand's value. It is fine to make nods to tradition and it is important to build upon the past, but it isn't good to completely reject the new or to preserve clear flaws of past designs simply because the past as a whole is considered sacrosanct. In other words, you are extending my comments beyond what I intended and are pushing things too greatly to extremes. Also, I've got my fan loyalties, and regardless making attacks that I'm "the worst kind of fan" is just plain rude. Huh? Well, yeah, this is absolutely true. As I said, the quality of a game's design is based almost entirely on how well the rules suit the design goals. I don't know what you're trying to get at here... Again, I must say... Huh? You logic makes no sense. I'm not begging the question at all when I say that 4E's goal was to please the fans who had problems with 3E's klunkiness and lack of balance (and there were [i]many[/i] throughout 3E's life), and that it did a great job of appealing to those fans. The rest of what you say is simply incoherent and nonsensical. I think you failed to understand my point. I'll say it again. The quality of a game design is measured entirely by how well it pleases its target audience. Do you honestly disbelieve the idea that objective measurement can be made of subjective thoughts and feelings? You do realize this means that you disbelieve in the legitimacy of statistics, polls, market research, psychology, sociology, linguistics, and medicine, correct? It isn't like the idea of measuring "fun" or "happiness" by adding up a bunch of subjective opinions is remotely controversial outside of places like ENWorld where people refuse to believe that game design is a real thing. People accumulate data like this all of the time throughout the world. How on Earth is it suddenly a questionable act when it comes to the tiny little world of tabletop RPG enjoyment? [/QUOTE]
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