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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5965201" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>4e contributed to 'player agency' with dailies, which included attacks and in-combat utilities, as you say, and by making flavor text more mutable (which just continued the trends started with 2e kits and 3e description of characters and their gear being less mechanics-dependent). It did not do nearly as much as it could have out-of-combat, though. There were some out-of-combat utilities - the Ranger's 'Crucial Advice' probably being one of the more obvious non-spell examples (there are numerous out-of-combat-aplicable utility spells, but I'm emphasizing where it got it right across all classes).</p><p></p><p>So, 5e could do with a lot more of that - player-defineable flavor, pc customizeability, dramatic limitted-use abilities both in and out of combat for all classes - and also with a good deal less /dependence/ upon DM fiat. (Though, not being dependent on it in no way prevents DMs from exercising their perogative to override the rules)</p><p></p><p>The DC have decent guidelines, so the burden on the DM is small. There /are/ some utilities that give some classes a bit of agency in skill challegnes, like all get in combat. 5e should much more strongly emphasize such options when balancing the classes, so that everybody contributes & has agency in all three pillars.</p><p></p><p>Again, unless I'm missing something (which I very well could be). I'm interested in your take on the dynamic, player-empowered non-combat capabilities that players can reliably use to shape the fiction without DM approval (which means, too, that DCs should be reliably defined with they're to be interacted with regularly). Basically, where are you coming from on this front? I'm curious. As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5965201, member: 996"] 4e contributed to 'player agency' with dailies, which included attacks and in-combat utilities, as you say, and by making flavor text more mutable (which just continued the trends started with 2e kits and 3e description of characters and their gear being less mechanics-dependent). It did not do nearly as much as it could have out-of-combat, though. There were some out-of-combat utilities - the Ranger's 'Crucial Advice' probably being one of the more obvious non-spell examples (there are numerous out-of-combat-aplicable utility spells, but I'm emphasizing where it got it right across all classes). So, 5e could do with a lot more of that - player-defineable flavor, pc customizeability, dramatic limitted-use abilities both in and out of combat for all classes - and also with a good deal less /dependence/ upon DM fiat. (Though, not being dependent on it in no way prevents DMs from exercising their perogative to override the rules) The DC have decent guidelines, so the burden on the DM is small. There /are/ some utilities that give some classes a bit of agency in skill challegnes, like all get in combat. 5e should much more strongly emphasize such options when balancing the classes, so that everybody contributes & has agency in all three pillars. Again, unless I'm missing something (which I very well could be). I'm interested in your take on the dynamic, player-empowered non-combat capabilities that players can reliably use to shape the fiction without DM approval (which means, too, that DCs should be reliably defined with they're to be interacted with regularly). Basically, where are you coming from on this front? I'm curious. As always, play what you like :)[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
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