Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5965403" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>This is a big part of it for me, too. Namely, I want player agency on some things so that I can focus on other things that are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Important to us for the DM to retain control of stylistically</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Not really possible for the players to handle well</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Have some attention left to notice miscommunication</li> </ul><p>Imagine a D&D system where, for example, the weapon listing is completely messed up. A player wants to use a mace, but that doesn't work when you planned to use orcs. So every time the players want to pick up or switch weapons, they have to get permission. I think most of us think that D&D can do better than that--not least of all because it always has. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p>Now maybe when it comes to characters generated at high levels, the weapon system trying to do too much with magic items is counter productive. That's a fair characterization of some of the bad side effects of 3E/4E high level magic items. It's probably better to let the DM say, "No, you can't have a vorpal sword at the start of the campaign." But even then, you'd still like the players to have some idea of what will work and what will not.</p><p> </p><p>In my mind, the ideal sub system handles about 80% of the common cases. If it does that, it will also manage to encompass at least a few of the uncommon cases. Then DM fiat handles the rest--including nearly all the rare edge cases.</p><p> </p><p>I would like to see D&D do a better job of handling "cues," though. In our games, we tend to do a lot of "delegated agency"--where the DM hands off, temporarily, DM responsibility to a player, or a player hands something to the DM, or even one player hands to another player. This is also basically social contract stuff that has evolved in our group, that isn't directly supported by any system I have ever seen (though Burning Wheel's use of linked tests across players can come close at times). When we are really hopping, this happens at the "speed of talk"--zipping across and around the table. It would probably be mainly advice, but I've never even seen it discussed. I find that in this environment, a lot of player/DM agency conflicts simply vanish.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5965403, member: 54877"] This is a big part of it for me, too. Namely, I want player agency on some things so that I can focus on other things that are: [LIST] [*]Important to us for the DM to retain control of stylistically [*]Not really possible for the players to handle well [*]Have some attention left to notice miscommunication [/LIST]Imagine a D&D system where, for example, the weapon listing is completely messed up. A player wants to use a mace, but that doesn't work when you planned to use orcs. So every time the players want to pick up or switch weapons, they have to get permission. I think most of us think that D&D can do better than that--not least of all because it always has. :D Now maybe when it comes to characters generated at high levels, the weapon system trying to do too much with magic items is counter productive. That's a fair characterization of some of the bad side effects of 3E/4E high level magic items. It's probably better to let the DM say, "No, you can't have a vorpal sword at the start of the campaign." But even then, you'd still like the players to have some idea of what will work and what will not. In my mind, the ideal sub system handles about 80% of the common cases. If it does that, it will also manage to encompass at least a few of the uncommon cases. Then DM fiat handles the rest--including nearly all the rare edge cases. I would like to see D&D do a better job of handling "cues," though. In our games, we tend to do a lot of "delegated agency"--where the DM hands off, temporarily, DM responsibility to a player, or a player hands something to the DM, or even one player hands to another player. This is also basically social contract stuff that has evolved in our group, that isn't directly supported by any system I have ever seen (though Burning Wheel's use of linked tests across players can come close at times). When we are really hopping, this happens at the "speed of talk"--zipping across and around the table. It would probably be mainly advice, but I've never even seen it discussed. I find that in this environment, a lot of player/DM agency conflicts simply vanish. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
Top