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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5965468" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>I'm more interested in skills being expanded here, rather than "powers", but as long as it's meaningfully expanded, I'll be happy.</p><p></p><p>Well, the DM can change whatever he wants, but a nice, solid baseline with DCs set and given make for players that can look at a task and say "I can reliably hit that." If healing somebody is DC <em>X</em>, then when I have <em>+X-1</em> as my modifier, I can't fail. If the DC is 15, and I roll at +5, I know I've got a pretty decent chance of success. Codifying common rolls is good for establishing "player agency" as has been used in this conversation.</p><p></p><p>Yeah. I think some of what you describe is best settled via social contract issues, but starting pretty 3/3/3 is my preferred point over 5/1/1 or 4/3/1. Set that as the default, and let people alter it (using provided guidelines). As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, isn't the skill system pretty much run by DM fiat for DMs who don't always use the guidelines and scale the DCs of everything? I think Neonchameleon would classify climbing a regular tree as a moderate level 1 DC (or something similar), but since he's determining the level of the difficulty (on a scale of 1-30, then on a easy/moderate/hard level), isn't guessing what you can do mean that you're essentially engaging in a "Mother May I?" situation during play?</p><p></p><p>That is, don't defined DCs give players the ability to know how they can shape the content of the fiction, rather than saying "can I do this?" followed by a "and how hard is that?"</p><p></p><p>It just seems like the rules-light nature of the skill system isn't a great outlet for "player agency" unless the DM allows it to be, which seems to be a poor form of "player agency", in my opinion. As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5965468, member: 6668292"] I'm more interested in skills being expanded here, rather than "powers", but as long as it's meaningfully expanded, I'll be happy. Well, the DM can change whatever he wants, but a nice, solid baseline with DCs set and given make for players that can look at a task and say "I can reliably hit that." If healing somebody is DC [I]X[/I], then when I have [I]+X-1[/I] as my modifier, I can't fail. If the DC is 15, and I roll at +5, I know I've got a pretty decent chance of success. Codifying common rolls is good for establishing "player agency" as has been used in this conversation. Yeah. I think some of what you describe is best settled via social contract issues, but starting pretty 3/3/3 is my preferred point over 5/1/1 or 4/3/1. Set that as the default, and let people alter it (using provided guidelines). As always, play what you like :) Again, isn't the skill system pretty much run by DM fiat for DMs who don't always use the guidelines and scale the DCs of everything? I think Neonchameleon would classify climbing a regular tree as a moderate level 1 DC (or something similar), but since he's determining the level of the difficulty (on a scale of 1-30, then on a easy/moderate/hard level), isn't guessing what you can do mean that you're essentially engaging in a "Mother May I?" situation during play? That is, don't defined DCs give players the ability to know how they can shape the content of the fiction, rather than saying "can I do this?" followed by a "and how hard is that?" It just seems like the rules-light nature of the skill system isn't a great outlet for "player agency" unless the DM allows it to be, which seems to be a poor form of "player agency", in my opinion. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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