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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5967796" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>I touched on that in my nod to "genre-logic" in the downsides to "objective" DCs. So, consider that already acknowledged?</p><p></p><p>Oh, my personal thoughts on the matter...</p><p></p><p>This has more to do with the inherent "gonzo" of the "objective" DCs, and not "objective" DCs themselves. My reference to Mutants and Masterminds earlier was to demonstrate that.</p><p></p><p>However, pemerton is right in that strong use of "objective" DCs would likely cut away a lot of "gonzo" from D&D. And I'm okay with that, personally, at lower levels. This is just where people's wants begin to differ, and I understand the objective to what I want.</p><p></p><p>In my RPG at higher hit die (13-19), though, I've had players jump down 40 feet with no damage, jump off of a raised platform onto a dragon's back, or climb a wall at 90 feet high and jump onto a very powerful wind elemental, or shoot a line of chain into a dragon and brace to hold it if it flies away, or climb a 100 ft. tall ice creature to reach the weak spot on top, or...</p><p></p><p>When using "objective" DCs, it doesn't prevent this sort of play from happening. It just regulates it. My players have looked at the rules on grappling large creature, or climbing them, or climbing and jumping, or negotiating, or crafting, or leading armies, or killing, or magic, etc., and all come up with impressive PCs, because they know exactly what they can do. And that empowers them to do it.</p><p></p><p>Where "objective" DCs get sticky are in genre-logic, making the GM's "story" harder by locking some things into place, and setting the level of "objective" DCs that will satisfy multiple groups. But, are they more player empowering than hoping that the GM lets you do something, and that the DC isn't too high? I think so, personally. As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5967796, member: 6668292"] I touched on that in my nod to "genre-logic" in the downsides to "objective" DCs. So, consider that already acknowledged? Oh, my personal thoughts on the matter... This has more to do with the inherent "gonzo" of the "objective" DCs, and not "objective" DCs themselves. My reference to Mutants and Masterminds earlier was to demonstrate that. However, pemerton is right in that strong use of "objective" DCs would likely cut away a lot of "gonzo" from D&D. And I'm okay with that, personally, at lower levels. This is just where people's wants begin to differ, and I understand the objective to what I want. In my RPG at higher hit die (13-19), though, I've had players jump down 40 feet with no damage, jump off of a raised platform onto a dragon's back, or climb a wall at 90 feet high and jump onto a very powerful wind elemental, or shoot a line of chain into a dragon and brace to hold it if it flies away, or climb a 100 ft. tall ice creature to reach the weak spot on top, or... When using "objective" DCs, it doesn't prevent this sort of play from happening. It just regulates it. My players have looked at the rules on grappling large creature, or climbing them, or climbing and jumping, or negotiating, or crafting, or leading armies, or killing, or magic, etc., and all come up with impressive PCs, because they know exactly what they can do. And that empowers them to do it. Where "objective" DCs get sticky are in genre-logic, making the GM's "story" harder by locking some things into place, and setting the level of "objective" DCs that will satisfy multiple groups. But, are they more player empowering than hoping that the GM lets you do something, and that the DC isn't too high? I think so, personally. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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