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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5978044" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>It's because <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-horizons-upcoming-edition-d-d/326200-why-i-like-skill-challenges-noncombat-resolution-mechanic.html" target="_blank">I like skill-challenge style mechanics</a> that I'm so disappointed with the way WotC handled the presentation of them. When I compare it to the quality of rules text in games like HeroWars (2000?), Maelstrom Storytelling (1997?) and Burning Wheel revised (2005), not to mention the many essays and threads on this sort of mechanic at The Forge, I think the rulebooks were inexcusably lacking - they said the right sort of stuff, but at a level of abstraction that I think no one who didn't already know what s/he was looking for could interpret, and without practical advice on how to narrate consequences of successful or failed checks.</p><p></p><p>The best proof of this is that it is so common to hear objections along the lines of "But what if the PCs do something that logically should bring the challenge to an end before achieving the requisite number of successes?" If the mechanics and techniques were properly explained, this question wouldn't arise (just as no one asks "But what if a PC does something that logically should kill an NPC even though the NPC hasn't been dropped to zero hp?").</p><p></p><p>As you say, the MV is very good. And I'm not as sceptical as you about the character class mechanics either. But I think the packaging and presentation is just terrible, with needless and over-the-top text bloat and dupiclation. It's like someone said "We need more fluff text!!" and so the fog machine was turned on and allowed to write whatever it felt like onto the pages of the books.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5978044, member: 42582"] It's because [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-horizons-upcoming-edition-d-d/326200-why-i-like-skill-challenges-noncombat-resolution-mechanic.html]I like skill-challenge style mechanics[/url] that I'm so disappointed with the way WotC handled the presentation of them. When I compare it to the quality of rules text in games like HeroWars (2000?), Maelstrom Storytelling (1997?) and Burning Wheel revised (2005), not to mention the many essays and threads on this sort of mechanic at The Forge, I think the rulebooks were inexcusably lacking - they said the right sort of stuff, but at a level of abstraction that I think no one who didn't already know what s/he was looking for could interpret, and without practical advice on how to narrate consequences of successful or failed checks. The best proof of this is that it is so common to hear objections along the lines of "But what if the PCs do something that logically should bring the challenge to an end before achieving the requisite number of successes?" If the mechanics and techniques were properly explained, this question wouldn't arise (just as no one asks "But what if a PC does something that logically should kill an NPC even though the NPC hasn't been dropped to zero hp?"). As you say, the MV is very good. And I'm not as sceptical as you about the character class mechanics either. But I think the packaging and presentation is just terrible, with needless and over-the-top text bloat and dupiclation. It's like someone said "We need more fluff text!!" and so the fog machine was turned on and allowed to write whatever it felt like onto the pages of the books. [/QUOTE]
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