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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7428097" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>Thank you for trying to frame the entire conversation and say only your concern matters, but there are other concerns.And at that moment, being asked to IMPLY there is no problem because there is a Core +1 Rule rather than being TOLD EXPLICITLY that they've created rules tailored to avoid the problem is not going to be inherently better. </p><p></p><p>AGAIN, no. Not true. Irrelevant means no relevance, and it is quite relevant to some players that they are prevented from taking certain options because they chose the wrong +1.</p><p></p><p>Again, entirely my point.Or they can be told, "No problem. Use the PHB to make a character. If there is anything outside the PHB you want to us, just check this list. You don't need to worry about using anything outside the PHB now - it has plenty of options to get you started... you'll likely want to look at the other books after you get going." </p><p></p><p>BUT IT DOES FRIGGING BELL TOWER OF BUBBA GUMP matter. And, as I've repeatedly said, there are multiple ways to address your concern that do not hamper the long term options in the same way.</p><p></p><p>I'm glad we agree....I disagree with the notion that someone with no context for the game is going to imply the benefits you perceive more clearly than if they are explicitly told, "We got you, Dude. Create away."</p><p></p><p>It is unnecessary for home play where the DM can craft whatever limits they want.OK, put all that aside for a minute.</p><p></p><p>Bob walks in the door. Bob wants to play. Bob asks how to get started. Someone, magically, Bob implies that at the moment of character creation he is on a level playing field with everyone else because of the Core +1 rule. Bob makes a character and plays 2 sessions with his Hexblade. Then, Bob hears about Eliminster's Manual of the Planes being released. And it is FREAKING AWESOME. It has perfect stuff for his PC. And Bob is told, "Sorry, you can't use anything in it for your character... you chose Xanathar's as your +1."</p><p></p><p>Does Bob like that he is told he can't use it?</p><p>Does Bob feel like buying a book he can't use?</p><p>Does Bob feel like the game protected him with the +1 Rule, or that the +1 Rule screwed him?</p><p></p><p>Any argument about the simplicity of Core +1 being a great selling point can be countered by good marketing of whatever alternative system you propose.</p><p></p><p>In a very real sense: The rule, in and of itself, acknowledges it is a faulty approach. If simplicity is the ultimate selling point, why not go even simpler and make PHB the only option at level 1? Much simpler. Balanced for time and cost issues. Balanced for power gaming purposes. Heck, why not limit players to just the basic rules options? Even simpler!</p><p></p><p>Why? Because we want to allow options more than we want ultimate simplicity. We want players to be able to use these new materials, and a rule that fairly arbitrarily groups things and says, "Hey, right now, when you know little about the game, pick from one of these pools, or decide you want to wait to pick one later..." is a turnoff that worries new players. I've seen it at AL events. The question of, "Should I play an XGtE class or just a PHB one so that I can XXX later" does happen. </p><p></p><p>Summary:</p><p></p><p>There are options available that offer a better long term gaming experience with more options.</p><p></p><p>Any optics advantage for that brand new player are suspect because they require inference, and are countered by negative perceptions that might drive them from the game once they start.</p><p></p><p>Done.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 7428097, member: 2629"] Thank you for trying to frame the entire conversation and say only your concern matters, but there are other concerns.And at that moment, being asked to IMPLY there is no problem because there is a Core +1 Rule rather than being TOLD EXPLICITLY that they've created rules tailored to avoid the problem is not going to be inherently better. AGAIN, no. Not true. Irrelevant means no relevance, and it is quite relevant to some players that they are prevented from taking certain options because they chose the wrong +1. Again, entirely my point.Or they can be told, "No problem. Use the PHB to make a character. If there is anything outside the PHB you want to us, just check this list. You don't need to worry about using anything outside the PHB now - it has plenty of options to get you started... you'll likely want to look at the other books after you get going." BUT IT DOES FRIGGING BELL TOWER OF BUBBA GUMP matter. And, as I've repeatedly said, there are multiple ways to address your concern that do not hamper the long term options in the same way. I'm glad we agree....I disagree with the notion that someone with no context for the game is going to imply the benefits you perceive more clearly than if they are explicitly told, "We got you, Dude. Create away." It is unnecessary for home play where the DM can craft whatever limits they want.OK, put all that aside for a minute. Bob walks in the door. Bob wants to play. Bob asks how to get started. Someone, magically, Bob implies that at the moment of character creation he is on a level playing field with everyone else because of the Core +1 rule. Bob makes a character and plays 2 sessions with his Hexblade. Then, Bob hears about Eliminster's Manual of the Planes being released. And it is FREAKING AWESOME. It has perfect stuff for his PC. And Bob is told, "Sorry, you can't use anything in it for your character... you chose Xanathar's as your +1." Does Bob like that he is told he can't use it? Does Bob feel like buying a book he can't use? Does Bob feel like the game protected him with the +1 Rule, or that the +1 Rule screwed him? Any argument about the simplicity of Core +1 being a great selling point can be countered by good marketing of whatever alternative system you propose. In a very real sense: The rule, in and of itself, acknowledges it is a faulty approach. If simplicity is the ultimate selling point, why not go even simpler and make PHB the only option at level 1? Much simpler. Balanced for time and cost issues. Balanced for power gaming purposes. Heck, why not limit players to just the basic rules options? Even simpler! Why? Because we want to allow options more than we want ultimate simplicity. We want players to be able to use these new materials, and a rule that fairly arbitrarily groups things and says, "Hey, right now, when you know little about the game, pick from one of these pools, or decide you want to wait to pick one later..." is a turnoff that worries new players. I've seen it at AL events. The question of, "Should I play an XGtE class or just a PHB one so that I can XXX later" does happen. Summary: There are options available that offer a better long term gaming experience with more options. Any optics advantage for that brand new player are suspect because they require inference, and are countered by negative perceptions that might drive them from the game once they start. Done. [/QUOTE]
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