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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8372789" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>I have a quibble to raise with the Creature Catalogue's Gigantes conversions: that name is PLURAL, the singular is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_(Greek_mythology)" target="_blank"><strong>Gigas</strong></a>, not "Gigante" as appears three times in the CC entry.</p><p></p><p>Now "Gigante" is the singular in modern Italian, Portuguese and Spanish (the Italian plural is "Giganti", although Portuguese/Spanish plural is still "Gigantes") which might account for the 2E AD&D <em>Legends & Lore</em> (1990), which refers to "Gigante" and "gigante", but it's definitely "Gigas" in Ancient Greek.</p><p></p><p>In any case, the CC entry has multiple uses of "Gigantes" as a singular which is flat-out wrong.</p><p></p><p>Would there be any objection to me editing the entry so all the singulars are "Gigas"?</p><p></p><p>The CC entry has inconsistent capitalization with four "Gigantes" partway through sentences that should be changed to "gigantes". Those appear to be a copy-and-paste artifact from the CC's Giant, Enceladus entry. I could sort that out while singularizing the gigas.</p><p></p><p>Come to think of it, Enceladus's entry is the only place the names of the Gigantes appear - shouldn't that be in the main intro text instead? The CC entry implies there's an entire race of gigantes and not just six, plus Greek myth mentions a lot more than six gigantes by name. Also, shouldn't the entry allow for additional giants that don't appear in Greek myth like our CC version of the Titans?</p><p></p><p>Oh, and technically neither <strong><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_(mythology)" target="_blank"><strong>Uranus</strong></a></strong> or <strong><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)" target="_blank"><strong>Gaea</strong></a></strong> are <strong><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians" target="_blank">Olympian Gods</a></strong> - they're both Primordial Deities who aren't residents of Mount Olympus.</p><p></p><p>Hmm… perhaps we could use "Gigantes" as the collective name of the original giants and "gigantes" for the non-classical version?</p><p></p><p>Currently I'd go for editing in the following:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The gigantes (singular gigas) are a race of legendary giants, the offspring of the primordial earth goddess Gaea and the sky god Uranus. According to myth, the blood of Uranus fertilized Gaea when their son Cronus the Titan castrated his father and usurped the throne. Known gigantes include Agrius, Alcyoneus, Athos, Clytias, Echion, Enceladus, Ephialtes, Eurytus, Clytius, Gration, Hippolytus, Mimas, Pallas, Polybotes, Porphyrion and Thoas. Gaea also bore giant children with other fathers, such as Antaeus the son of Poseidon. In turn, these gigantes may have gigas descendants unmentioned in mythology.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The gigantes ultimately warred with the Olympian gods in an epic battle called the Gigantomachy, but lost to the more powerful and younger gods. As a result, most surviving gigantes hate the Olympians, and will fight against them again if given the chance.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">…</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Antaeus is a gigas son of Mother Gaia, goddess of the earth, and the Olympian sea god Poseidon.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">…</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The enormous, malformed Enceladus (Enkelados) is one of the Gigantes, a race of giants born from the primal deities Uranus and Gaea. During the Gigantomachy, Zeus defeated Enceladus with his thunderbolts, and Athena buried him under a mountain.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatoncheires" target="_blank"><strong>Hecatoncheires</strong></a> is also plural and was usually a collective reference to all three of the Hundred-Handed Ones. However, it appears to be acceptable modern practive to use it as a singular (i.e. "Aegaeon the Hecatoncheires") although the singular form would probably be "<strong><a href="https://theancientgeekoroman.wordpress.com/2018/12/05/greek-gods-youve-never-heard-of-part-vi/" target="_blank">Hecatoncheir</a></strong>". At least I think that's what it'd be - it's all Greek to me!</p><p></p><p>Also, the plural of Cyclops is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopes" target="_blank"><strong>Cyclopes</strong></a> as used in the 1E AD&D version of Deities & Demigods (1980) aka <em>Legends & Lore</em> (1985), the 2E AD&D <em>Legends & Lore</em> (1990) only uses the plural form, while its <em>Monstrous Manual</em> "Giant, Cyclops" page uses the plural and singular correctly as does the BECMI <em>Rules Cyclopedia</em> (1991) and 3E D&D sources such as WotC's <em>Deities and Demigods</em> (2002) and <em>Shining South</em> (2004). Note that the 2E <em>MM</em> entry is mostly about the 7½ foot Cyclopskin not the 20 foot Cyclops Giant, the latter appears to be equivalent to the "Mythological" Lesser Cyclopes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8372789, member: 57383"] I have a quibble to raise with the Creature Catalogue's Gigantes conversions: that name is PLURAL, the singular is [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_(Greek_mythology)'][B]Gigas[/B][/URL], not "Gigante" as appears three times in the CC entry. Now "Gigante" is the singular in modern Italian, Portuguese and Spanish (the Italian plural is "Giganti", although Portuguese/Spanish plural is still "Gigantes") which might account for the 2E AD&D [I]Legends & Lore[/I] (1990), which refers to "Gigante" and "gigante", but it's definitely "Gigas" in Ancient Greek. In any case, the CC entry has multiple uses of "Gigantes" as a singular which is flat-out wrong. Would there be any objection to me editing the entry so all the singulars are "Gigas"? The CC entry has inconsistent capitalization with four "Gigantes" partway through sentences that should be changed to "gigantes". Those appear to be a copy-and-paste artifact from the CC's Giant, Enceladus entry. I could sort that out while singularizing the gigas. Come to think of it, Enceladus's entry is the only place the names of the Gigantes appear - shouldn't that be in the main intro text instead? The CC entry implies there's an entire race of gigantes and not just six, plus Greek myth mentions a lot more than six gigantes by name. Also, shouldn't the entry allow for additional giants that don't appear in Greek myth like our CC version of the Titans? Oh, and technically neither [B][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_(mythology)'][B]Uranus[/B][/URL][/B] or [B][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)'][B]Gaea[/B][/URL][/B] are [B][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians']Olympian Gods[/URL][/B] - they're both Primordial Deities who aren't residents of Mount Olympus. Hmm… perhaps we could use "Gigantes" as the collective name of the original giants and "gigantes" for the non-classical version? Currently I'd go for editing in the following: [INDENT]The gigantes (singular gigas) are a race of legendary giants, the offspring of the primordial earth goddess Gaea and the sky god Uranus. According to myth, the blood of Uranus fertilized Gaea when their son Cronus the Titan castrated his father and usurped the throne. Known gigantes include Agrius, Alcyoneus, Athos, Clytias, Echion, Enceladus, Ephialtes, Eurytus, Clytius, Gration, Hippolytus, Mimas, Pallas, Polybotes, Porphyrion and Thoas. Gaea also bore giant children with other fathers, such as Antaeus the son of Poseidon. In turn, these gigantes may have gigas descendants unmentioned in mythology.[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]The gigantes ultimately warred with the Olympian gods in an epic battle called the Gigantomachy, but lost to the more powerful and younger gods. As a result, most surviving gigantes hate the Olympians, and will fight against them again if given the chance.[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]…[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]Antaeus is a gigas son of Mother Gaia, goddess of the earth, and the Olympian sea god Poseidon.[/INDENT] [INDENT] … [/INDENT] [INDENT]The enormous, malformed Enceladus (Enkelados) is one of the Gigantes, a race of giants born from the primal deities Uranus and Gaea. During the Gigantomachy, Zeus defeated Enceladus with his thunderbolts, and Athena buried him under a mountain.[/INDENT] Incidentally, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatoncheires'][B]Hecatoncheires[/B][/URL] is also plural and was usually a collective reference to all three of the Hundred-Handed Ones. However, it appears to be acceptable modern practive to use it as a singular (i.e. "Aegaeon the Hecatoncheires") although the singular form would probably be "[B][URL='https://theancientgeekoroman.wordpress.com/2018/12/05/greek-gods-youve-never-heard-of-part-vi/']Hecatoncheir[/URL][/B]". At least I think that's what it'd be - it's all Greek to me! Also, the plural of Cyclops is [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopes'][B]Cyclopes[/B][/URL] as used in the 1E AD&D version of Deities & Demigods (1980) aka [I]Legends & Lore[/I] (1985), the 2E AD&D [I]Legends & Lore[/I] (1990) only uses the plural form, while its [I]Monstrous Manual[/I] "Giant, Cyclops" page uses the plural and singular correctly as does the BECMI [I]Rules Cyclopedia[/I] (1991) and 3E D&D sources such as WotC's [I]Deities and Demigods[/I] (2002) and [I]Shining South[/I] (2004). Note that the 2E [I]MM[/I] entry is mostly about the 7½ foot Cyclopskin not the 20 foot Cyclops Giant, the latter appears to be equivalent to the "Mythological" Lesser Cyclopes. [/QUOTE]
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