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<blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 1716435" data-attributes="member: 3801"><p>Impeesa is correct, a CR equal to the party's level should be a good fight, using up a quarter of the resources a party has.</p><p></p><p>Here's why one 9th level guy is a CR 9 challenge for a 9th level party:</p><p> </p><p>The creatures used to fight the party <em>have no restrictions on use of resources</em>. It's not that the PCs have restrictions designed by the game, it's that the party will not usually use every spell, charged item, or potion during a single battle. A party will generally keep expendable stuff in reserve, since they've got to fight more battles before curing and restocking.</p><p> </p><p>So if you 9th level party gets cloned, and you (the DM) are controlling the clones, it wouldn't occur to you to save that "Potion of Complete Healing, Refreshment, Bull's Strength, and total Butt-Kicking for 10 Rounds" against the party. But chances are, the party will save something like that for when there's serious trouble (usually after the fighter has gone down, everyone's wounded, and the dragon is making his thrid pass...)</p><p> </p><p>The clones would use every charged item, spell, or whatever. There's no need for them to save those - they are not relevent once the battle is over. They don't plan for the future. PCs must consider not only what they are facing now, <em>but what they may face in the future</em>. </p><p> </p><p>The same logic applies in reverse when considering some monsters as PCs. A monster with a spell-like ability to Chain-Lightning at will would make a tough enemy. It would make an insanely powerful PC. The monster (as a challenge) will get to use that "at-will" ability three or four times perhaps - usually up until the PCs kill it and take it's stuff. A PC would use it <em>every encounter</em>, many times. The difference in those things is again that PC abilities last over time, and monster abilities last for only one combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rushlight, post: 1716435, member: 3801"] Impeesa is correct, a CR equal to the party's level should be a good fight, using up a quarter of the resources a party has. Here's why one 9th level guy is a CR 9 challenge for a 9th level party: The creatures used to fight the party [i]have no restrictions on use of resources[/i]. It's not that the PCs have restrictions designed by the game, it's that the party will not usually use every spell, charged item, or potion during a single battle. A party will generally keep expendable stuff in reserve, since they've got to fight more battles before curing and restocking. So if you 9th level party gets cloned, and you (the DM) are controlling the clones, it wouldn't occur to you to save that "Potion of Complete Healing, Refreshment, Bull's Strength, and total Butt-Kicking for 10 Rounds" against the party. But chances are, the party will save something like that for when there's serious trouble (usually after the fighter has gone down, everyone's wounded, and the dragon is making his thrid pass...) The clones would use every charged item, spell, or whatever. There's no need for them to save those - they are not relevent once the battle is over. They don't plan for the future. PCs must consider not only what they are facing now, [i]but what they may face in the future[/i]. The same logic applies in reverse when considering some monsters as PCs. A monster with a spell-like ability to Chain-Lightning at will would make a tough enemy. It would make an insanely powerful PC. The monster (as a challenge) will get to use that "at-will" ability three or four times perhaps - usually up until the PCs kill it and take it's stuff. A PC would use it [i]every encounter[/i], many times. The difference in those things is again that PC abilities last over time, and monster abilities last for only one combat. [/QUOTE]
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