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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8929789" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Let's try this again.</p><p></p><p>In each scenario there are two steps:</p><p></p><p>A -Step 1. The player reasons about ways and means of taking a tapestry along on leaving the area.</p><p>A -Step 2. That reasoning leads the player to creative use of ropes and brute force.</p><p></p><p>B -Step 1. The player reasons about ways and means of escaping a seemingly inescapable cell.</p><p>B -Step 2. That reasoning leads the player to creative use of a spell.</p><p></p><p>You keep trying to equate Step 1 in A with Step 2 in B. Further, you seem to be saying that creative use of a spell does not equate with reasoning about and-or engaging with the fiction...and with this I disagree, in that a spell and its effects are every bit as much a part of the shared fiction as are ropes and knots. The only difference (a difference that is IMO both arbitrary and artificial) is that spells have hard-coded rules around them that both player and DM are expected to honour, where ropes and brute force do not.</p><p></p><p>If there's hard-coded rules around the use of ropes and brute force, then what?</p><p></p><p>In both cases the player is simply trying to use what the PC has available to change the shared fiction to the PCs' advantage.</p><p></p><p>This seems more like thinking about the mechanical benefits first, then trying to find a way to make the fiction work such that those benefits apply.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8929789, member: 29398"] Let's try this again. In each scenario there are two steps: A -Step 1. The player reasons about ways and means of taking a tapestry along on leaving the area. A -Step 2. That reasoning leads the player to creative use of ropes and brute force. B -Step 1. The player reasons about ways and means of escaping a seemingly inescapable cell. B -Step 2. That reasoning leads the player to creative use of a spell. You keep trying to equate Step 1 in A with Step 2 in B. Further, you seem to be saying that creative use of a spell does not equate with reasoning about and-or engaging with the fiction...and with this I disagree, in that a spell and its effects are every bit as much a part of the shared fiction as are ropes and knots. The only difference (a difference that is IMO both arbitrary and artificial) is that spells have hard-coded rules around them that both player and DM are expected to honour, where ropes and brute force do not. If there's hard-coded rules around the use of ropes and brute force, then what? In both cases the player is simply trying to use what the PC has available to change the shared fiction to the PCs' advantage. This seems more like thinking about the mechanical benefits first, then trying to find a way to make the fiction work such that those benefits apply. [/QUOTE]
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