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Cultures in D&D/roleplaying: damned if you do, damned if you don't
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7399922" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Wheaton's Law broken. This is going downhill fast. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>You don't actually know how much political science he knows. I don't know how much political science he knows. Don't try to pull an argument from authority, especially when you might not be the authority in the argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The 'or' is new. Not that long ago, it used to be an 'and'. Nations shared a history, religion, language, race and culture by definition. Sometime around 1776, drawing upon the writings of British thinkers, a bit of Britain broke off and decided to try something completely new - a nation out of many nations, and not merely many nations under one sovereign (that is to say, the technical definition of empire). We took in the nations, and we melted them together into something new, becoming a nation among nations and of nations and breaking the dictionary definition of the word in the process. It wasn't always perfect. We didn't always hold to our best ideas. But that was the plot. And a lot of people hated us for it. A lot still do. Heck, many of us hated ourselves for it. </p><p></p><p>The plot got lost. I'll leave it at that. And if you think that the other side - however you define 'other side - did it, you don't understand the problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In Turkey, they don't have this plot and they certainly don't as a nation agree to it. Kurds literally aren't Turkish, and are made to know it. And really, let's not go there. I could go into a long detailed riff on the culture of Turkey but it doesn't have much to do with the culture of gaming.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, the rest of the world doesn't have the American culture, and outside of places influenced either by us or by our British cultural parents it just doesn't work that way. Just because we have defined nation as a Westphalian political entity and a political entity alone, doesn't mean that the rest of the world functions by that definition, or agrees to that definition, nor that a nation united only by political bonds can hang together. </p><p></p><p>It's a whole lot more complicated than I think either of you concede. Nation is a lot less subjective than you think it is, and maybe a bit more constructed by a collective social agreement than he thinks it is, but can we go back to hypothetical fantasy examples before the red letters come out?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7399922, member: 4937"] Wheaton's Law broken. This is going downhill fast. :( You don't actually know how much political science he knows. I don't know how much political science he knows. Don't try to pull an argument from authority, especially when you might not be the authority in the argument. The 'or' is new. Not that long ago, it used to be an 'and'. Nations shared a history, religion, language, race and culture by definition. Sometime around 1776, drawing upon the writings of British thinkers, a bit of Britain broke off and decided to try something completely new - a nation out of many nations, and not merely many nations under one sovereign (that is to say, the technical definition of empire). We took in the nations, and we melted them together into something new, becoming a nation among nations and of nations and breaking the dictionary definition of the word in the process. It wasn't always perfect. We didn't always hold to our best ideas. But that was the plot. And a lot of people hated us for it. A lot still do. Heck, many of us hated ourselves for it. The plot got lost. I'll leave it at that. And if you think that the other side - however you define 'other side - did it, you don't understand the problem. In Turkey, they don't have this plot and they certainly don't as a nation agree to it. Kurds literally aren't Turkish, and are made to know it. And really, let's not go there. I could go into a long detailed riff on the culture of Turkey but it doesn't have much to do with the culture of gaming. Again, the rest of the world doesn't have the American culture, and outside of places influenced either by us or by our British cultural parents it just doesn't work that way. Just because we have defined nation as a Westphalian political entity and a political entity alone, doesn't mean that the rest of the world functions by that definition, or agrees to that definition, nor that a nation united only by political bonds can hang together. It's a whole lot more complicated than I think either of you concede. Nation is a lot less subjective than you think it is, and maybe a bit more constructed by a collective social agreement than he thinks it is, but can we go back to hypothetical fantasy examples before the red letters come out? [/QUOTE]
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