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Cunning & Panache: A Revised Rogue
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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 6017751" data-attributes="member: 2303"><p>Had time to read this all the way trough now.</p><p></p><p>Not sure I like the merger of the ninja and rogue classes. I feel they still make distinct classes, one magical, the other not. But this is immaterial to the rest of this text.</p><p></p><p>The ideas below each stand on their own merits; some might make others obsolete. Think of each suggestion on its own.</p><p></p><p>Your idea of a cunning pool is... a kludge, but perhaps a necessary one. If it was possible to do without it, i would. As it stands, i think you could merge cunning and panache, giving a pool of level + Int + Dex + Cha bonus. This helps low-level rogues and allows for the increased cunning costs you have for advanced talents. With your original rule, a 10th level rogue would have less than 10 cunning, so abilities that cost 2 points would be really draining.</p><p></p><p>The following abilities don't need to use Cunning IMO, simply remove the Cunning restriction: Acrobatic Master, Assault Leader, Camouflage, Esotheric Schlar, Expert Leaper, Underhanded, Defensive Roll, Flurry of Steel, Quick reaction, Scrounger, Silent takedown, Skill adept, Team player, Two-weapon adept. With this, those abilities costing 2 cunning could cost just one point and the cunning pool can remain small.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Prerequisite: there are way too many prerequisites here. I'd remove all of the non-rogue talent prereqs, and about half of those. Prerequisites force people to plan ahead, to make builds, a path that should be discouraged rather than enforced.</p><p></p><p>Specific abilities:</p><p></p><p>Acrobatic Master - How does this interact with the Mobility feat?</p><p></p><p>Camouflage - Surrounding foliage could use clarification - will dungeon lichen and fungi do? Also, I think the rogue could sue this to substitute the Sneak skill of allies, as long as they don't move. </p><p></p><p>Ki Block - I think this should not exist. Unlike spells, class abilities like the Ki pool are very intrinsic, and should not generally be possible to override. There is no way to override cunning or grit, why allow an override of Ki?</p><p></p><p>Smoke Bomb - Better to say what it does explicitly than to refer to some piece of equipment.</p><p></p><p>Sniper's Eye - New wording: This extends the range of the rouge's special abilities normally limited to 30 ft., like sneak attack. Such abilities now have a range of 60 ft.</p><p></p><p>Underhanded - I'd allow a Sleight of Hand in place of Bluff to feint as a part of a weapon draw action instead of increasing sneak attack damage.</p><p></p><p>Assassinate - It is unclear if a target that knows the assassin, but who cannot see him because he is hidden, can be affected.</p><p></p><p>Defensive Roll - feels very weak and conditional. It only works on the blow that knocks you out, and if that blow was a serious attack from a high-level foe, the DC is likely to be impossible. An Acrobatics (Tumble) check against CMD feels more appropriate.</p><p></p><p>Ghost Step - 1 ft. per level ought to suffice.</p><p></p><p>Hide in Plain Sight - Remove prerequisites, give the full description without referencing.</p><p></p><p>Redirect Attack - I'd make this require a Bluff roll of some sort, but also try to avoid needing to make too many rolls.</p><p></p><p>Unarmed Combat Mastery - Don't see so much need for this, an unarmed sneak attack deals a lot of damage anyway.</p><p></p><p>Acquired Immunity - Remove all prerequisites, this is a pretty weak effect.</p><p></p><p>Deadly Strike - I'd not use this, simply because deciding to use it or not could slow down play.</p><p></p><p>Find Weakness - Overly complex.</p><p></p><p>Fleet Escape - Very tightly limited. A GM might use a chase only for special occasions, and as a player you cannot enforce a chase scene.</p><p></p><p>No Trace - I'd simplify this by having the rogue literally leave no trace, like a ranger in a favored terrain.</p><p></p><p>Scrounger - simplify by removing all non-tool penalties.</p><p></p><p>Silent Takedown - I'd not demand a talent for this, anyone can do it, rogue or no. </p><p></p><p>Skill Adept - Making this constantly active speeds up play - they rogue knows to always use 2 dice for these checks.</p><p></p><p>Trapsmith - I'd remove the extraordinary trap penalty for rogues. Also, give the full text, not just a reference.</p><p></p><p>Vicious Ambush - My reading of the rules is that this always applies, not just to the first attack.</p><p></p><p>Doublestrike - This needs a rewrite, with less 2WF bias (or a 2WF prerequisite). Also, it should only be usable once per round.</p><p></p><p>Surprise Attack - Don't think this needs to be an advanced talent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 6017751, member: 2303"] Had time to read this all the way trough now. Not sure I like the merger of the ninja and rogue classes. I feel they still make distinct classes, one magical, the other not. But this is immaterial to the rest of this text. The ideas below each stand on their own merits; some might make others obsolete. Think of each suggestion on its own. Your idea of a cunning pool is... a kludge, but perhaps a necessary one. If it was possible to do without it, i would. As it stands, i think you could merge cunning and panache, giving a pool of level + Int + Dex + Cha bonus. This helps low-level rogues and allows for the increased cunning costs you have for advanced talents. With your original rule, a 10th level rogue would have less than 10 cunning, so abilities that cost 2 points would be really draining. The following abilities don't need to use Cunning IMO, simply remove the Cunning restriction: Acrobatic Master, Assault Leader, Camouflage, Esotheric Schlar, Expert Leaper, Underhanded, Defensive Roll, Flurry of Steel, Quick reaction, Scrounger, Silent takedown, Skill adept, Team player, Two-weapon adept. With this, those abilities costing 2 cunning could cost just one point and the cunning pool can remain small. Prerequisite: there are way too many prerequisites here. I'd remove all of the non-rogue talent prereqs, and about half of those. Prerequisites force people to plan ahead, to make builds, a path that should be discouraged rather than enforced. Specific abilities: Acrobatic Master - How does this interact with the Mobility feat? Camouflage - Surrounding foliage could use clarification - will dungeon lichen and fungi do? Also, I think the rogue could sue this to substitute the Sneak skill of allies, as long as they don't move. Ki Block - I think this should not exist. Unlike spells, class abilities like the Ki pool are very intrinsic, and should not generally be possible to override. There is no way to override cunning or grit, why allow an override of Ki? Smoke Bomb - Better to say what it does explicitly than to refer to some piece of equipment. Sniper's Eye - New wording: This extends the range of the rouge's special abilities normally limited to 30 ft., like sneak attack. Such abilities now have a range of 60 ft. Underhanded - I'd allow a Sleight of Hand in place of Bluff to feint as a part of a weapon draw action instead of increasing sneak attack damage. Assassinate - It is unclear if a target that knows the assassin, but who cannot see him because he is hidden, can be affected. Defensive Roll - feels very weak and conditional. It only works on the blow that knocks you out, and if that blow was a serious attack from a high-level foe, the DC is likely to be impossible. An Acrobatics (Tumble) check against CMD feels more appropriate. Ghost Step - 1 ft. per level ought to suffice. Hide in Plain Sight - Remove prerequisites, give the full description without referencing. Redirect Attack - I'd make this require a Bluff roll of some sort, but also try to avoid needing to make too many rolls. Unarmed Combat Mastery - Don't see so much need for this, an unarmed sneak attack deals a lot of damage anyway. Acquired Immunity - Remove all prerequisites, this is a pretty weak effect. Deadly Strike - I'd not use this, simply because deciding to use it or not could slow down play. Find Weakness - Overly complex. Fleet Escape - Very tightly limited. A GM might use a chase only for special occasions, and as a player you cannot enforce a chase scene. No Trace - I'd simplify this by having the rogue literally leave no trace, like a ranger in a favored terrain. Scrounger - simplify by removing all non-tool penalties. Silent Takedown - I'd not demand a talent for this, anyone can do it, rogue or no. Skill Adept - Making this constantly active speeds up play - they rogue knows to always use 2 dice for these checks. Trapsmith - I'd remove the extraordinary trap penalty for rogues. Also, give the full text, not just a reference. Vicious Ambush - My reading of the rules is that this always applies, not just to the first attack. Doublestrike - This needs a rewrite, with less 2WF bias (or a 2WF prerequisite). Also, it should only be usable once per round. Surprise Attack - Don't think this needs to be an advanced talent. [/QUOTE]
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