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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
D&D = American + European Fantasy
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<blockquote data-quote="talien" data-source="post: 7756372" data-attributes="member: 3285"><p><strong>Dungeons & Dragons</strong> draws on a rich mythology from the works of European authors like J.R.R. Tolkien and Michael Moorcock. And yet D&D was also influenced by American authors like Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, H.P. Lovecraft, and R.E. Howard. The end result is that D&D's tone sits somewhere between the two.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]124630[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">Photo by <a href="https://unsplash.com/photos/1iBEXJOHCsM?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText" target="_blank">Jorge Martínez</a> on <a href="https://unsplash.com/search/photos/disney-castle?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText" target="_blank">Unsplash</a></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px">European Folklore</span></strong></p><p></p><p>The bones of D&D have obvious roots in European myths and legends; we see it in the dwarves, elves, hobbits, and orcs of J.R.R. Tolkien and the fairies, giants, and dragons that are scattered throughout the <strong>Monster Manual.</strong> Colleen Gillard explains how British fantasy flourished by staying in touch with its pagan roots -- <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/01/why-the-british-tell-better-childrens-stories/422859/" target="_blank">and was even influenced by the landscape</a>:</p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]Landscape matters: Britain’s antique countryside, strewn with moldering castles and cozy farms, lends itself to fairy-tale invention. As Tatar puts it, the British are tuned in to the charm of their pastoral fields...[/EXCERPT]</p><p>But D&D has many influences, not the least of which are co-creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, who brought their own American sensibilities to the game. For a fantasy role-playing game that is distinctly European, look no further than <strong>Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay,</strong> <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5466-Warhammer-FRPG-4th-Ed-PDF-Pre-Order-Goes-Live-on-DriveThruRPG" target="_blank">now in its Fourth Edition</a>.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px">American Influences</span></strong></p><p></p><p>American fantasy, like the Europeans, was influenced by its terrain:</p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]America’s mighty vistas, by contrast, are less cozy, less human-scaled, and less haunted. The characters that populate its purple mountain majesties and fruited plains are decidedly real...[/EXCERPT]</p><p>But perhaps the strongest difference is a sense of control over one's destiny. This belief, carried over with America's earliest settlers from Europe, reinforced that self-enrichment was a moral right, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism" target="_blank">as outlined by Max Weber</a>:</p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]...Weber wrote that capitalism in Northern Europe evolved when the Protestant (particularly Calvinist) ethic influenced large numbers of people to engage in work in the secular world, developing their own enterprises and engaging in trade and the accumulation of wealth for investment. In other words, the Protestant work ethic was an important force behind the unplanned and uncoordinated emergence of modern capitalism.[/EXCERPT]</p><p>No wonder then that Gygax strongly adhered to a leveling system in which heroes can rise to success through the accumulation of wealth at significant risk. This was how heroes like Conan, Fafhrd, and the Gray Mouser did it, and it draws on a long tradition of American folklore:</p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]Popular storytelling in the New World instead tended to celebrate in words and song the larger-than-life exploits of ordinary men and women: Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Calamity Jane, even a mule named Sal on the Erie Canal. Out of bragging contests in logging and mining camps came even greater exaggerations—Tall Tales—about the giant lumberjack Paul Bunyan, the twister-riding cowboy Pecos Bill, and that steel-driving man John Henry, who, born a slave, died with a hammer in his hand. All of these characters embodied the American promise: They earned their fame.[/EXCERPT]</p><p>Unlike in European fantasy where boys become kings (or in Harry Potter's case, orphans become wizards), characters in D&D aren't usually born heroes; the very nature of leveling systems and experience points ensures they earn it.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px">A Motley Mix</span></strong></p><p></p><p>Adding these two influences together creates <strong>Dungeons & Dragons, </strong>a rich tapestry of fantasy that draws on the works of European authors and then throws in American sensibilities where the heroes are in control of their destiny -- or at least their skills and attributes.</p><p></p><p>For all their American influences, D&D heroes are still small in the weave of the world. In early D&D games, they died by the handfuls at the whim of dice, a lesson distinctly at odds with American determinism.</p><p></p><p>D&D has come full circle to influence the fantasy that created it. You can see its motley pedigree's fingerprints on sweeping fantasies like <strong>Game of Thrones.</strong> As the fantasy genre continues to flourish and the world becomes more interconnected, it seems likely that we'll see more works that draw on other cultures...<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5018-When-Fantasy-Meets-Africa" target="_blank">D&D included</a>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="talien, post: 7756372, member: 3285"] [B]Dungeons & Dragons[/B] draws on a rich mythology from the works of European authors like J.R.R. Tolkien and Michael Moorcock. And yet D&D was also influenced by American authors like Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, H.P. Lovecraft, and R.E. Howard. The end result is that D&D's tone sits somewhere between the two. [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" alt="disney.jpg"]124630[/ATTACH] Photo by [URL='https://unsplash.com/photos/1iBEXJOHCsM?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText']Jorge Martínez[/URL] on [URL='https://unsplash.com/search/photos/disney-castle?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText']Unsplash[/URL][/CENTER] [B][SIZE=5]European Folklore[/SIZE][/B] The bones of D&D have obvious roots in European myths and legends; we see it in the dwarves, elves, hobbits, and orcs of J.R.R. Tolkien and the fairies, giants, and dragons that are scattered throughout the [B]Monster Manual.[/B] Colleen Gillard explains how British fantasy flourished by staying in touch with its pagan roots -- [URL='https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/01/why-the-british-tell-better-childrens-stories/422859/']and was even influenced by the landscape[/URL]: [EXCERPT]Landscape matters: Britain’s antique countryside, strewn with moldering castles and cozy farms, lends itself to fairy-tale invention. As Tatar puts it, the British are tuned in to the charm of their pastoral fields...[/EXCERPT] But D&D has many influences, not the least of which are co-creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, who brought their own American sensibilities to the game. For a fantasy role-playing game that is distinctly European, look no further than [B]Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay,[/B] [URL='http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5466-Warhammer-FRPG-4th-Ed-PDF-Pre-Order-Goes-Live-on-DriveThruRPG']now in its Fourth Edition[/URL]. [B][SIZE=5]American Influences[/SIZE][/B] American fantasy, like the Europeans, was influenced by its terrain: [EXCERPT]America’s mighty vistas, by contrast, are less cozy, less human-scaled, and less haunted. The characters that populate its purple mountain majesties and fruited plains are decidedly real...[/EXCERPT] But perhaps the strongest difference is a sense of control over one's destiny. This belief, carried over with America's earliest settlers from Europe, reinforced that self-enrichment was a moral right, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism']as outlined by Max Weber[/URL]: [EXCERPT]...Weber wrote that capitalism in Northern Europe evolved when the Protestant (particularly Calvinist) ethic influenced large numbers of people to engage in work in the secular world, developing their own enterprises and engaging in trade and the accumulation of wealth for investment. In other words, the Protestant work ethic was an important force behind the unplanned and uncoordinated emergence of modern capitalism.[/EXCERPT] No wonder then that Gygax strongly adhered to a leveling system in which heroes can rise to success through the accumulation of wealth at significant risk. This was how heroes like Conan, Fafhrd, and the Gray Mouser did it, and it draws on a long tradition of American folklore: [EXCERPT]Popular storytelling in the New World instead tended to celebrate in words and song the larger-than-life exploits of ordinary men and women: Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Calamity Jane, even a mule named Sal on the Erie Canal. Out of bragging contests in logging and mining camps came even greater exaggerations—Tall Tales—about the giant lumberjack Paul Bunyan, the twister-riding cowboy Pecos Bill, and that steel-driving man John Henry, who, born a slave, died with a hammer in his hand. All of these characters embodied the American promise: They earned their fame.[/EXCERPT] Unlike in European fantasy where boys become kings (or in Harry Potter's case, orphans become wizards), characters in D&D aren't usually born heroes; the very nature of leveling systems and experience points ensures they earn it. [B][SIZE=5]A Motley Mix[/SIZE][/B] Adding these two influences together creates [B]Dungeons & Dragons, [/B]a rich tapestry of fantasy that draws on the works of European authors and then throws in American sensibilities where the heroes are in control of their destiny -- or at least their skills and attributes. For all their American influences, D&D heroes are still small in the weave of the world. In early D&D games, they died by the handfuls at the whim of dice, a lesson distinctly at odds with American determinism. D&D has come full circle to influence the fantasy that created it. You can see its motley pedigree's fingerprints on sweeping fantasies like [B]Game of Thrones.[/B] As the fantasy genre continues to flourish and the world becomes more interconnected, it seems likely that we'll see more works that draw on other cultures...[URL='http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5018-When-Fantasy-Meets-Africa']D&D included[/URL]. [/QUOTE]
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