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D & D and/or Pathfinder, the effects of selective spell exclusions
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6858106" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>While I agree that world breaking spells need to go, there is a fine line between taking away world breaking spells and disempowering players. I have never had a problem keeping a plot going with twists and surprises. I'd have to see a list of spells you consider 'world breaking'. When I think world breaking, teleport doesn't immediately enter my head: fabricate and polymorph any object do.</p><p></p><p>One reason that many spells are considered 'world breaking' is people try to run the world like the real world without taking into account these spells. But in a world where these spells happened, they wouldn't surprise someone. So, for example, in a world where people regularly investigated violent deaths with 'Speak with the Dead', murderers would know this was going to happen, and they'd take precautions to avoid leaving useful evidence accordingly. There are all sorts of easy precautions a murder can take to render 'Speak with the Dead' all but useless to a would be investigator. In a world where powerful people could be raised from the dead (assuming this was legal, see my prior discussions about the legal implications of raising a dead man back to life), an assassin would know you couldn't dispose of a powerful person simply by sticking a knife in his back, and would plan accordingly. And so forth. Too often the real problem is that the DM is taken by surprise by the PC's spellcasting, as if the PC's were the first spellcasters to ever exist in the world.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, but teleportation circle might be depending on what you are going for.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In my campaign, in most areas, if you are proven to be a sorcerer the legal penalty is to be burned at the stake. Sorcerers are considered monsters. They are considered to be inhuman, and are treated accordingly. If you are found to be a sorcerer, you technically have no legal rights. Now, in many areas, this law is enforced only in the breach and people aren't particularly zealous about it. But in theory, if you upset a civic authority, and they knew you were a sorcerer, the law would be entirely on their side to lynch you with a minimal show trial.</p><p></p><p>Beyond that, sorcerer is not a Tier 1 class. I see no reason to nerf it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is greatly nerfing the class. I would not play it under these conditions. In the hands of a good player, Wizard is a more powerful class already. I can understand having bloodline have a more powerful influence over your character, but your restrictions seem rather unfun for the player. Do you have a lot of players?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you ever read the 1e DMG? What you describe is not a twist; it's normal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Normal. Normal. Normal. That's how D&D is supposed to work, by and large, since the 1970's.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6858106, member: 4937"] While I agree that world breaking spells need to go, there is a fine line between taking away world breaking spells and disempowering players. I have never had a problem keeping a plot going with twists and surprises. I'd have to see a list of spells you consider 'world breaking'. When I think world breaking, teleport doesn't immediately enter my head: fabricate and polymorph any object do. One reason that many spells are considered 'world breaking' is people try to run the world like the real world without taking into account these spells. But in a world where these spells happened, they wouldn't surprise someone. So, for example, in a world where people regularly investigated violent deaths with 'Speak with the Dead', murderers would know this was going to happen, and they'd take precautions to avoid leaving useful evidence accordingly. There are all sorts of easy precautions a murder can take to render 'Speak with the Dead' all but useless to a would be investigator. In a world where powerful people could be raised from the dead (assuming this was legal, see my prior discussions about the legal implications of raising a dead man back to life), an assassin would know you couldn't dispose of a powerful person simply by sticking a knife in his back, and would plan accordingly. And so forth. Too often the real problem is that the DM is taken by surprise by the PC's spellcasting, as if the PC's were the first spellcasters to ever exist in the world. No, but teleportation circle might be depending on what you are going for. In my campaign, in most areas, if you are proven to be a sorcerer the legal penalty is to be burned at the stake. Sorcerers are considered monsters. They are considered to be inhuman, and are treated accordingly. If you are found to be a sorcerer, you technically have no legal rights. Now, in many areas, this law is enforced only in the breach and people aren't particularly zealous about it. But in theory, if you upset a civic authority, and they knew you were a sorcerer, the law would be entirely on their side to lynch you with a minimal show trial. Beyond that, sorcerer is not a Tier 1 class. I see no reason to nerf it. This is greatly nerfing the class. I would not play it under these conditions. In the hands of a good player, Wizard is a more powerful class already. I can understand having bloodline have a more powerful influence over your character, but your restrictions seem rather unfun for the player. Do you have a lot of players? Have you ever read the 1e DMG? What you describe is not a twist; it's normal. Normal. Normal. Normal. That's how D&D is supposed to work, by and large, since the 1970's. [/QUOTE]
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