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D&D and the magic economy
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5388096" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>I agree the rules don't make sense, but I wouldn't say they're broken. It's a game, not a real-life sim.</p><p></p><p>I won't discuss 1e and 2e, as they didn't have wealth by level guidelines.</p><p></p><p>In 3.x, magic items were <em>vital</em> for adventurers. You couldn't do low-magic properly without a huge amount of house rules (although there were many DMs that tried, which is why I said <em>properly</em>). This was because the game gave you offense bonuses for levels, but much weaker defensive bonuses.</p><p></p><p>(A 1st-level fighter would have BAB +1 (an attack bonus of +3 to +6 was reasonable) and could have an AC as high as 21 [+8 full plate, +2 heavy shield, +1 Dex]) and even higher with a tower shield. At 20th-level, without magic items, said fighter would have a BAB of +20 (attack bonus around +26, assuming 2-5 Strength boosts) and an AC of 24 (+3 for mithral and possible level-based Dex boosts).</p><p></p><p>See the difference? His AC hardly improved at all. This is why ther were so many magic items that boosted AC, and three of the seven "required"* items boosted AC. (Magic weapon, cloak of resistance, magic shield, magic armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, stat-boosting items).</p><p></p><p>This led to rust monsters being horrifying, Mordenkainen's disjunction being broken, etc.</p><p></p><p>It also led to PCs gaining wealth at an absurd rate, and DMs were trying to keep up with a wealth by level guideline that was almost impossible to enforce. (PCs usually gained less wealth than "expected" because they lost some selling loot to ridiculously wealth magic item shopkeepers. There's also no guarantee you won't gain several levels between visits to a metropolis. I think someone here calculated several years ago that PCs had to be able to use 85% of found magic items "as is" to avoid wealth loss.)</p><p></p><p>If PCs ended up with more wealth than expected, they could either break the game by buying/crafting more items, or they could go into business, where the rewards were <em>much</em> smaller (both in terms of cash and in terms of XP). So what would PCs do? They tended toward the former.</p><p></p><p>*Requirements varied by class. Wizards didn't have to have a magic weapon; an Int-boosting item was much more valuable. And they weren't as item-dependent as fighters in any event.</p><p></p><p>In 4e items are a little bit better. Because offense and defense are both boosted by levels, you could give no magic items at all and just have to use slightly weaker monsters. Only three items per PC are usually required, with anything else being flavor. (You need an implement or weapon, a neck slot item to boost non-AC defenses, and magic armor to boost AC.) Those items can be replaced by mathematically transparent inherent bonuses.</p><p></p><p>(This is great for Dark Sun. Magic items are so rare there's no set prices for them in my upcoming campaign. The PCs' rewards can be <em>far</em> smaller, so that "survival days" of rations and water [only 5 gp per PC per day] can have some minimal impact on them.)</p><p></p><p>As a result, it won't harm game balance if the PCs end up with more wealth than expected. I don't even know if PCs can use higher-level items, with all the limitations on items. But they can certainly invest their money into other things.</p><p></p><p>With 4e's ruleset, you could simply "slice" all treasure parcels to 10% or even 1% (including the same discounts for magic items, assuming you're not running low-magic) and the system should still work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 5388096, member: 1165"] I agree the rules don't make sense, but I wouldn't say they're broken. It's a game, not a real-life sim. I won't discuss 1e and 2e, as they didn't have wealth by level guidelines. In 3.x, magic items were [i]vital[/i] for adventurers. You couldn't do low-magic properly without a huge amount of house rules (although there were many DMs that tried, which is why I said [i]properly[/i]). This was because the game gave you offense bonuses for levels, but much weaker defensive bonuses. (A 1st-level fighter would have BAB +1 (an attack bonus of +3 to +6 was reasonable) and could have an AC as high as 21 [+8 full plate, +2 heavy shield, +1 Dex]) and even higher with a tower shield. At 20th-level, without magic items, said fighter would have a BAB of +20 (attack bonus around +26, assuming 2-5 Strength boosts) and an AC of 24 (+3 for mithral and possible level-based Dex boosts). See the difference? His AC hardly improved at all. This is why ther were so many magic items that boosted AC, and three of the seven "required"* items boosted AC. (Magic weapon, cloak of resistance, magic shield, magic armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, stat-boosting items). This led to rust monsters being horrifying, Mordenkainen's disjunction being broken, etc. It also led to PCs gaining wealth at an absurd rate, and DMs were trying to keep up with a wealth by level guideline that was almost impossible to enforce. (PCs usually gained less wealth than "expected" because they lost some selling loot to ridiculously wealth magic item shopkeepers. There's also no guarantee you won't gain several levels between visits to a metropolis. I think someone here calculated several years ago that PCs had to be able to use 85% of found magic items "as is" to avoid wealth loss.) If PCs ended up with more wealth than expected, they could either break the game by buying/crafting more items, or they could go into business, where the rewards were [i]much[/i] smaller (both in terms of cash and in terms of XP). So what would PCs do? They tended toward the former. *Requirements varied by class. Wizards didn't have to have a magic weapon; an Int-boosting item was much more valuable. And they weren't as item-dependent as fighters in any event. In 4e items are a little bit better. Because offense and defense are both boosted by levels, you could give no magic items at all and just have to use slightly weaker monsters. Only three items per PC are usually required, with anything else being flavor. (You need an implement or weapon, a neck slot item to boost non-AC defenses, and magic armor to boost AC.) Those items can be replaced by mathematically transparent inherent bonuses. (This is great for Dark Sun. Magic items are so rare there's no set prices for them in my upcoming campaign. The PCs' rewards can be [i]far[/i] smaller, so that "survival days" of rations and water [only 5 gp per PC per day] can have some minimal impact on them.) As a result, it won't harm game balance if the PCs end up with more wealth than expected. I don't even know if PCs can use higher-level items, with all the limitations on items. But they can certainly invest their money into other things. With 4e's ruleset, you could simply "slice" all treasure parcels to 10% or even 1% (including the same discounts for magic items, assuming you're not running low-magic) and the system should still work. [/QUOTE]
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