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D&D Archetypes that are missing from the core books?
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<blockquote data-quote="Agent Oracle" data-source="post: 3039782" data-attributes="member: 40076"><p>Battlemage: Okay, he has Full attack, and full magic. He's a gestalt Spellcaster / Fighter. Why play anything else? clearly, he is optimal for dealing with any kind of enemy. You mention not having to hamstring a build, but what you are blind to is that every build is hamstringed! fighters have poor skills and only one good save, plus their ability to inflict damage is limited by their weapon choice. Wizards have low hit points and only middling skills, but they can deal massive amounts of damage for short periods of time. If a class had full attack and full casting, what would limit it? poor hit points? then why have full attack if it can't survive melee? bad skills? they would have to get lower than the 2 skill points fighters get, and still be able to get important-to-spellcasting skills like Concentration.</p><p></p><p>Assassin: It's called "Rogue: Alignment, Evil."</p><p></p><p>Finesse Fighter: Take basic fighter, Houserule that their DEX add to the to-hit for both melee and ranged, and STR adds only to damage. Make Armor check penalties apply to their to-hit as well as skill checks. There, that was easy. You realize that the core reason for Swashbucklers was that if you wore heavy armor on a ship and got knocked over the side, you were doomed, right?</p><p></p><p>Pugalist: Already did this one. played a fat monk (think friar tuck) I just punched people hard. Never used any of the other big class features. (slowfall, etc.) 'cept for flurry.</p><p></p><p>Noble: "My Daddy is rich and owns land and KNOWS people! Important people!"</p><p>"That's great, how exactly will this help us defeat the giant scorpion in a long forgotten tomb?" </p><p>Making a bit of character background into a core defining element of the class is almost silly.</p><p></p><p>Scout: Move silently. Hide. Spot. Listen. Those are the complete, total necessary abilities of a scout. Any class with those abilities (and most without) can scout ahead, scout around, look for danger, etc.) You'll need to better define it.</p><p></p><p>Non-battle oriented divine caster: is all about spell choice. Pick a dozen "Create water" type spells, and viola! you're completely ineffective in combat!</p><p></p><p>Light Armored Archer: See "Ranger".</p><p></p><p>Aristocratic warrior: Knight. He has knowledge (nobility), though no diplomacy, i guess he's supposed to be the loyal-to-the-aristocracy warrior. Alternately: paladin: Knowledge (nobility) and Diplomacy.</p><p></p><p>Commander Class: Actually seems pretty good. any class that could attract meat shields, er, cohorts as a feature instead of by taking a feat would be pretty nifty... though the class would have to resolve a few issues (distribution of treasure, Do the others level up? how does one lead effectively? is there a leadership oath or something? etc.)</p><p></p><p>Scout: same as above.</p><p></p><p>Martial Artist: Another Monk variant i guess. See the pugalist</p><p></p><p>Swashbuckler: See Finesse fighter. Again: No armor because if they fall overboard, they die.</p><p></p><p>Arcane Warrior: See Duskblade</p><p></p><p>Nature Themed Arcane Caster: See Wu Jen.</p><p></p><p>Spontaneous Divine Caster: See Favored Soul</p><p></p><p>Aristocratic Warrior: See above about nobles and whatnot.</p><p></p><p>Alchemist: see, artificer. it's not magic, it just does the same thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Agent Oracle, post: 3039782, member: 40076"] Battlemage: Okay, he has Full attack, and full magic. He's a gestalt Spellcaster / Fighter. Why play anything else? clearly, he is optimal for dealing with any kind of enemy. You mention not having to hamstring a build, but what you are blind to is that every build is hamstringed! fighters have poor skills and only one good save, plus their ability to inflict damage is limited by their weapon choice. Wizards have low hit points and only middling skills, but they can deal massive amounts of damage for short periods of time. If a class had full attack and full casting, what would limit it? poor hit points? then why have full attack if it can't survive melee? bad skills? they would have to get lower than the 2 skill points fighters get, and still be able to get important-to-spellcasting skills like Concentration. Assassin: It's called "Rogue: Alignment, Evil." Finesse Fighter: Take basic fighter, Houserule that their DEX add to the to-hit for both melee and ranged, and STR adds only to damage. Make Armor check penalties apply to their to-hit as well as skill checks. There, that was easy. You realize that the core reason for Swashbucklers was that if you wore heavy armor on a ship and got knocked over the side, you were doomed, right? Pugalist: Already did this one. played a fat monk (think friar tuck) I just punched people hard. Never used any of the other big class features. (slowfall, etc.) 'cept for flurry. Noble: "My Daddy is rich and owns land and KNOWS people! Important people!" "That's great, how exactly will this help us defeat the giant scorpion in a long forgotten tomb?" Making a bit of character background into a core defining element of the class is almost silly. Scout: Move silently. Hide. Spot. Listen. Those are the complete, total necessary abilities of a scout. Any class with those abilities (and most without) can scout ahead, scout around, look for danger, etc.) You'll need to better define it. Non-battle oriented divine caster: is all about spell choice. Pick a dozen "Create water" type spells, and viola! you're completely ineffective in combat! Light Armored Archer: See "Ranger". Aristocratic warrior: Knight. He has knowledge (nobility), though no diplomacy, i guess he's supposed to be the loyal-to-the-aristocracy warrior. Alternately: paladin: Knowledge (nobility) and Diplomacy. Commander Class: Actually seems pretty good. any class that could attract meat shields, er, cohorts as a feature instead of by taking a feat would be pretty nifty... though the class would have to resolve a few issues (distribution of treasure, Do the others level up? how does one lead effectively? is there a leadership oath or something? etc.) Scout: same as above. Martial Artist: Another Monk variant i guess. See the pugalist Swashbuckler: See Finesse fighter. Again: No armor because if they fall overboard, they die. Arcane Warrior: See Duskblade Nature Themed Arcane Caster: See Wu Jen. Spontaneous Divine Caster: See Favored Soul Aristocratic Warrior: See above about nobles and whatnot. Alchemist: see, artificer. it's not magic, it just does the same thing. [/QUOTE]
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