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D&D @ High Levels = No Problem?
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<blockquote data-quote="Flynn" data-source="post: 4223043" data-attributes="member: 1836"><p>I've run one campaign to 16th level, one to 19th level and one to 24th level. For me, the problems stemmed from three primary sources: 1) prep time, 2) combat time and 3) challenge.</p><p></p><p><strong>Prep Time</strong>: I can build characters and the like at those high levels, but it does take time to do. Even if I can use pre-published NPCs (and I did when I could), we sometimes had sessions where half the time was spent with the players discussing their spell lists. That's not excitement to me. That's shopping for spells, and it sucks. Bookkeeping that detracts from game time is a bore, and I saw this increase dramatically as the levels increased.</p><p></p><p><strong>Combat Time</strong>: The more options a player has, the longer they take to choose the right one for the current situation. The more dice they have to roll (i.e. more iterative attacks, etc.), the longer they take to resolve the action they've selected. As my games increased in level, these led to combats that took over our entire session. This slowed down forward motion of the plot, and left me unsatisfied with the progress of the game.</p><p></p><p><strong>Challenge</strong>: The higher level you get, the more the PCs become brittle: they either walk all over their opponents, or their opponents walk all over them. Very rarely did I see an in-between, particularly at epic levels. So I found myself routinely lessening the challenge of an encounter because a TPK was unsatisfying at that point in the campaign. I don't enjoy being put in this kind of position by the rules as they stand, and would love to see a middle ground in terms of epic encounters.</p><p></p><p>Now, I will say that all of my campaigns ended where they did because of the story, but just as much they ended because I couldn't challenge the characters without killing them, and that just wasn't fun for me. My players may have had a blast, but I became very dissatisfied with the game. When the story ended, I took the opportunity to close up the game rather than introduce another multi-level story arc.</p><p></p><p>I don't have anything against 3E except that I don't enjoy this kind of game with experienced characters. Therefore, I'm more likely to play something streamlined where I don't have to worry as much about my or my players' prep time, about the fact that a combat eats up an entire session or that PCs become brittle in regards to challenging them at higher levels.</p><p></p><p>However, that's only my personal perspective, and I applaud and encourage those who do not experience this to continue what they're doing and enjoy the games they are in.</p><p></p><p>Best of Luck, Guys,</p><p>Flynn</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flynn, post: 4223043, member: 1836"] I've run one campaign to 16th level, one to 19th level and one to 24th level. For me, the problems stemmed from three primary sources: 1) prep time, 2) combat time and 3) challenge. [B]Prep Time[/B]: I can build characters and the like at those high levels, but it does take time to do. Even if I can use pre-published NPCs (and I did when I could), we sometimes had sessions where half the time was spent with the players discussing their spell lists. That's not excitement to me. That's shopping for spells, and it sucks. Bookkeeping that detracts from game time is a bore, and I saw this increase dramatically as the levels increased. [b]Combat Time[/b]: The more options a player has, the longer they take to choose the right one for the current situation. The more dice they have to roll (i.e. more iterative attacks, etc.), the longer they take to resolve the action they've selected. As my games increased in level, these led to combats that took over our entire session. This slowed down forward motion of the plot, and left me unsatisfied with the progress of the game. [b]Challenge[/b]: The higher level you get, the more the PCs become brittle: they either walk all over their opponents, or their opponents walk all over them. Very rarely did I see an in-between, particularly at epic levels. So I found myself routinely lessening the challenge of an encounter because a TPK was unsatisfying at that point in the campaign. I don't enjoy being put in this kind of position by the rules as they stand, and would love to see a middle ground in terms of epic encounters. Now, I will say that all of my campaigns ended where they did because of the story, but just as much they ended because I couldn't challenge the characters without killing them, and that just wasn't fun for me. My players may have had a blast, but I became very dissatisfied with the game. When the story ended, I took the opportunity to close up the game rather than introduce another multi-level story arc. I don't have anything against 3E except that I don't enjoy this kind of game with experienced characters. Therefore, I'm more likely to play something streamlined where I don't have to worry as much about my or my players' prep time, about the fact that a combat eats up an entire session or that PCs become brittle in regards to challenging them at higher levels. However, that's only my personal perspective, and I applaud and encourage those who do not experience this to continue what they're doing and enjoy the games they are in. Best of Luck, Guys, Flynn [/QUOTE]
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