Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Next Approximate Release Date?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 6167019" data-attributes="member: 6680772"><p>I think it's also largely a matter of practice. I can make a TSR D&D character in 10-15 minutes, because I made dozens of them. I know where in the book to check for things, I've got the process down in my head -- it's just a matter of execution. However, when I started my recent B/X campaign, we used the first hour just on chargen, which was something of a shock. But my players hadn't played B/X in years, if ever, and were much more used to WotC editions. So they went through the process very deliberately, learning as they went along. </p><p> </p><p>If you have a 4e group that regularly makes characters by pen and paper, after a few go-rounds they're going to have that <expletive> down pat. They're going to a few steps ahead in their minds; e.g., have their saves largely figured when distributing points to ability scores. They probably already have some feats pre-selected before they actually get to the point of selecting them.</p><p> </p><p>Another consideration is level. The difference in complexity at 1st level is not so great, but the gap does widen as you go up in level. And while I can only speak for my own experience, both 4e groups I've played with have a tendency to start with higher level characters. A TSR D&D 1st level wizard vs. a 4e 1st level wizard – not so different. A TSR 6th level wizard vs. a 4e 6th level wizard – IMO there's a significant time and energy difference there. I stress, though, that I do not mean this as a criticism of 4e. The ease of TSR-era characters is a by-product of off-loading much of the rules and adjudication load onto the DM, and relying heavily on fictional positioning on the players' side. 4e by design put much more of the rules and adjudication load onto the rules themselves, and chargen is designed to give players lots of options for character design and optimization. Both rule-sets are working as intended within their respective design paradigms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 6167019, member: 6680772"] I think it's also largely a matter of practice. I can make a TSR D&D character in 10-15 minutes, because I made dozens of them. I know where in the book to check for things, I've got the process down in my head -- it's just a matter of execution. However, when I started my recent B/X campaign, we used the first hour just on chargen, which was something of a shock. But my players hadn't played B/X in years, if ever, and were much more used to WotC editions. So they went through the process very deliberately, learning as they went along. If you have a 4e group that regularly makes characters by pen and paper, after a few go-rounds they're going to have that <expletive> down pat. They're going to a few steps ahead in their minds; e.g., have their saves largely figured when distributing points to ability scores. They probably already have some feats pre-selected before they actually get to the point of selecting them. Another consideration is level. The difference in complexity at 1st level is not so great, but the gap does widen as you go up in level. And while I can only speak for my own experience, both 4e groups I've played with have a tendency to start with higher level characters. A TSR D&D 1st level wizard vs. a 4e 1st level wizard – not so different. A TSR 6th level wizard vs. a 4e 6th level wizard – IMO there's a significant time and energy difference there. I stress, though, that I do not mean this as a criticism of 4e. The ease of TSR-era characters is a by-product of off-loading much of the rules and adjudication load onto the DM, and relying heavily on fictional positioning on the players' side. 4e by design put much more of the rules and adjudication load onto the rules themselves, and chargen is designed to give players lots of options for character design and optimization. Both rule-sets are working as intended within their respective design paradigms. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Next Approximate Release Date?
Top