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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 5893543" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>Is it D&D without Dragonborn/Tieflings/etc.? Yes.</p><p></p><p>Is it D&D with those things? Maybe.</p><p></p><p>Tieflings have been around a while; there's nothing wrong with a player being able to play one. Putting them in a race chapter in the beginning of the PHB sends the wrong message. It distances the game from the base races that are generic fantasy assumptions now (humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings, principally). It tritely says that "we're cool and dark and gritty" without actually being any of those things. It pushes a style that includes extraplanar beings as everyday things.</p><p></p><p>Dragonborn present much the same issues. Dragon people in dragon supplements can be kind of fun and interesting, but they aren't at the core of D&D.</p><p></p><p>So with both, the answer is that the sine qua non races, classes, etc. need to be presented upfront and they set the tone for the game, while the weirder options should be out there for those who care to look. The 4e treatment of eladrin, dragonborn, and tieflings is a perfect example of how the way information is presented can completely misrepresent that information. They aren't bad concepts (except maybe the eladrin), but they are fringe-y, and they were done poorly and they were waved in everyone's faces from day 1. Bad idea.</p><p></p><p>There really should be a nice treatment for the core four races, and a separate section of brief treatments for a set of alternative races, to be expanded on in supplements (the same for many other rules).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 5893543, member: 17106"] Is it D&D without Dragonborn/Tieflings/etc.? Yes. Is it D&D with those things? Maybe. Tieflings have been around a while; there's nothing wrong with a player being able to play one. Putting them in a race chapter in the beginning of the PHB sends the wrong message. It distances the game from the base races that are generic fantasy assumptions now (humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings, principally). It tritely says that "we're cool and dark and gritty" without actually being any of those things. It pushes a style that includes extraplanar beings as everyday things. Dragonborn present much the same issues. Dragon people in dragon supplements can be kind of fun and interesting, but they aren't at the core of D&D. So with both, the answer is that the sine qua non races, classes, etc. need to be presented upfront and they set the tone for the game, while the weirder options should be out there for those who care to look. The 4e treatment of eladrin, dragonborn, and tieflings is a perfect example of how the way information is presented can completely misrepresent that information. They aren't bad concepts (except maybe the eladrin), but they are fringe-y, and they were done poorly and they were waved in everyone's faces from day 1. Bad idea. There really should be a nice treatment for the core four races, and a separate section of brief treatments for a set of alternative races, to be expanded on in supplements (the same for many other rules). [/QUOTE]
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