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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 5879795" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>"Hardcore Gygaxian dungeoneering" has its place, but if it's all the game ever consists of it loses its appeal after a while. Personally, I prefer to take that as a base and then layer on a living breathing world beyond the dungeon for the characters to interact with (or not, as they will); and then add a thick slab of whimsy and-or humour to the whole thing.</p><p>I've come to appreciate game-world history's importance in world design more and more as time has gone on. Myth grows out of that, along with what the various pantheons give.</p><p></p><p>I don't care much about heroics - if the players want to play heroes, fine. If they want to play ordinary schlubs out to get rich quick, fine. If they want to play conniving double-crossing backstabbers, fine. Usually, any given party ends up as a mix of all these and more, leading to some wonderful arguments. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>My worry is that if this philosophy is taken too far the game just seems, well, pre-packaged somehow. There always has to be a chance of screwing up. I mean, you might make that jump to the chandelier 19 times out of 20, but the 20th time the chandelier swings left when you expected right, pokes you in the eye for 3 points damage, and you crash painfully to the floor. Your opponents then beat the tar out of you. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>See, there it is again - the safety net. Why does there have to be a safety net? More to the point, why do the players need to know there's a safety net? Surely you're not telling them the DC they have to beat.</p><p></p><p>Doesn't that rip the guts out of playing a nefarious double-crossing villain, if the PCs can trust her just because of what their dice did? On a different tack, how does this allow for behind-the-scenes plot development? Example: party uses a skill challenge in a social setting to get the local Baron to agree to allow them to adventure in his realm; but while they are in the field the Baron has second thoughts (or another adventuring group make him a more profitable offer), thus when the PCs come back from their adventure they are arrested and thrown in jail by the same Baron.</p><p></p><p>The Baron has changed his mind from what was earlier agreed. From what you say above this cannot happen, which makes no sense.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"I roll a 19 to slash the safety net to ribbons - do I hit?"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 5879795, member: 29398"] "Hardcore Gygaxian dungeoneering" has its place, but if it's all the game ever consists of it loses its appeal after a while. Personally, I prefer to take that as a base and then layer on a living breathing world beyond the dungeon for the characters to interact with (or not, as they will); and then add a thick slab of whimsy and-or humour to the whole thing. I've come to appreciate game-world history's importance in world design more and more as time has gone on. Myth grows out of that, along with what the various pantheons give. I don't care much about heroics - if the players want to play heroes, fine. If they want to play ordinary schlubs out to get rich quick, fine. If they want to play conniving double-crossing backstabbers, fine. Usually, any given party ends up as a mix of all these and more, leading to some wonderful arguments. :) My worry is that if this philosophy is taken too far the game just seems, well, pre-packaged somehow. There always has to be a chance of screwing up. I mean, you might make that jump to the chandelier 19 times out of 20, but the 20th time the chandelier swings left when you expected right, pokes you in the eye for 3 points damage, and you crash painfully to the floor. Your opponents then beat the tar out of you. :) See, there it is again - the safety net. Why does there have to be a safety net? More to the point, why do the players need to know there's a safety net? Surely you're not telling them the DC they have to beat. Doesn't that rip the guts out of playing a nefarious double-crossing villain, if the PCs can trust her just because of what their dice did? On a different tack, how does this allow for behind-the-scenes plot development? Example: party uses a skill challenge in a social setting to get the local Baron to agree to allow them to adventure in his realm; but while they are in the field the Baron has second thoughts (or another adventuring group make him a more profitable offer), thus when the PCs come back from their adventure they are arrested and thrown in jail by the same Baron. The Baron has changed his mind from what was earlier agreed. From what you say above this cannot happen, which makes no sense. Lan-"I roll a 19 to slash the safety net to ribbons - do I hit?"-efan [/QUOTE]
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