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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5984543" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>Yes, though those thoughts are a bit muddy right now. It's the reason why I bolded the "for XP purpose" in that post. </p><p> </p><p>Basically, I see the critical structural problem for the daily adventure XP budget approach being that, at least thus as presented so for and discussed by fans of that idea like [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION], is that it tends to conflate the three roles of XP:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Reward - to characters for good/ play.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Pacing of character advancement - distinct from the previous in that the DM may have plans/preparation dependent upon the pacing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Challenge/Encounter ratings - helping the DM determine what the PCs may be getting into.</li> </ol><p>I'm not too concerned about conflating the first two, partly because daily adventure XP budget and earlier version strutures also conflate them without too much trouble, and partly because the trouble caused I already have a solution for--use action points and other currrency as "reward" instead of XP, reserving XP for pacing purposes here. (This obviously is a bigger deal for those that like the AD&D mixed character levels approach, where reward is more important in XP, but then the pacing concerns of such a game are very different anyway.)</p><p> </p><p>It's the conflation of pacing and challenge that I think is at the heart of the problem being discussed in this topic. So my answer is to separate them conceptually, even if they both use the same XP mechanic as a measuring stick. My previous post was largely focused on how to tease the pacing out of the challenge, by saying that the pacing is:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A set amount of <strong>potential</strong> XP provided by the DM/adventure.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Gained/Attempted at a rate determined by the party to suit themselves.</li> </ol><p>In other words, not about living or dying directly, but about risk/reward <strong>speed</strong>. Presumably, there is a lot of possible variation on the speed, well shy of complete grind on one side or TPK on the other.</p><p> </p><p>Then I think the challenge information is primarily a DM issue mechanically, with the player interaction being a communication/social contract issue. Thus the need for the DM to have separate guidelines to determine how to break up the daily XP budget in ways that will meet his intentions.</p><p> </p><p>If, for example, the social contract is that the heroic party will go charging through the adventure, with clear clues when things are going to get really rough, then the DM needs to know enough about the challenge to communciate the clues. It's a cheap shot to pretend that, but then ambush the party with a complete day's worth of XP budget monsters. OTOH, if the social contract is that the party is exploring a dangerous environment, with widely varying difficulties, then then DM just needs to know that he is in the ballpark, which a daily total and some common sense should provide. </p><p> </p><p>So the XP budget provides a pacing (and reward) component and a <strong>very rough</strong> balancing component. Then there needs to be a separate challenge rating balacing component/guideline that tells the interested DMs how to divide that budget into pieces that fit their social contract and/or playstyle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5984543, member: 54877"] Yes, though those thoughts are a bit muddy right now. It's the reason why I bolded the "for XP purpose" in that post. Basically, I see the critical structural problem for the daily adventure XP budget approach being that, at least thus as presented so for and discussed by fans of that idea like [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION], is that it tends to conflate the three roles of XP: [LIST=1] [*]Reward - to characters for good/ play. [*]Pacing of character advancement - distinct from the previous in that the DM may have plans/preparation dependent upon the pacing. [*]Challenge/Encounter ratings - helping the DM determine what the PCs may be getting into. [/LIST]I'm not too concerned about conflating the first two, partly because daily adventure XP budget and earlier version strutures also conflate them without too much trouble, and partly because the trouble caused I already have a solution for--use action points and other currrency as "reward" instead of XP, reserving XP for pacing purposes here. (This obviously is a bigger deal for those that like the AD&D mixed character levels approach, where reward is more important in XP, but then the pacing concerns of such a game are very different anyway.) It's the conflation of pacing and challenge that I think is at the heart of the problem being discussed in this topic. So my answer is to separate them conceptually, even if they both use the same XP mechanic as a measuring stick. My previous post was largely focused on how to tease the pacing out of the challenge, by saying that the pacing is: [LIST=1] [*]A set amount of [B]potential[/B] XP provided by the DM/adventure. [*]Gained/Attempted at a rate determined by the party to suit themselves. [/LIST]In other words, not about living or dying directly, but about risk/reward [B]speed[/B]. Presumably, there is a lot of possible variation on the speed, well shy of complete grind on one side or TPK on the other. Then I think the challenge information is primarily a DM issue mechanically, with the player interaction being a communication/social contract issue. Thus the need for the DM to have separate guidelines to determine how to break up the daily XP budget in ways that will meet his intentions. If, for example, the social contract is that the heroic party will go charging through the adventure, with clear clues when things are going to get really rough, then the DM needs to know enough about the challenge to communciate the clues. It's a cheap shot to pretend that, but then ambush the party with a complete day's worth of XP budget monsters. OTOH, if the social contract is that the party is exploring a dangerous environment, with widely varying difficulties, then then DM just needs to know that he is in the ballpark, which a daily total and some common sense should provide. So the XP budget provides a pacing (and reward) component and a [B]very rough[/B] balancing component. Then there needs to be a separate challenge rating balacing component/guideline that tells the interested DMs how to divide that budget into pieces that fit their social contract and/or playstyle. [/QUOTE]
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