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D&D Red Box: Who Is The Warrior?
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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 9340597" data-attributes="member: 2013"><p>I'm sure there will be some that want to jump on this take, but in the spirit of "you are entitled to your own opinions, but you aren't entitled to your own facts" I will just throw the following out there:</p><p></p><p>1. The original artist (Elmore) stated that the fighter depicted in the piece was male. Since the painting is not a photograph, but is rather a rendition of something Elmore held in his imagination, that should be the end of the discussion as to whether or not the figure in the painting is male or female. You create it, your definition is objectively correct.</p><p></p><p>2. My opinion: I always felt that the context around the piece was the Mentzger Basic set itself, specifically the "Introductory Solo Adventure" which was illustrated in Black & White, also by Elmore. To wit, in my head, we already HAD front views of the fighter in question (yes, I realize this view has a non-horned helmet, lower-half clothing doesn't match, etc. I didn't say I was <strong>correct </strong>that they're the same person, just that<strong> I always assumed </strong>they were the same person). For example:</p><p><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiBjwVWOKT9MqTxg_BINada6756dpquhUv5AGPeAD8z_zZZQnQNzNW1f4JePLNqjR7mdneXjeWA8VHVjfrSNUSf77Xb-mxzuI2ZM6tHJvJYLa5uF-tZsH7Z9R4NPOJIzyd0iZ3E9YoRmU/s400/aleena+dead+cleric.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>To my eyes, the fighter depicted from this angle looks male (going mostly on pectoral shape here; clearly facial hair would have read more "male"). Again, this is my opinion of the piece and on its context and is NOT an indisputable fact.</p><p></p><p>3. However, it's also important to note that the Introductory text uses the second-person pronoun "you" rather than a third-person "he" or "she" so there is nothing in the text itself that would lend credence to my opinion expressed in point #2 above.</p><p></p><p>4. I am bothered by the WizKids figurine not because it challenges my pre-conceived expectations about the character's gender, but rather because it challenges my pre-conceived expectations about the character's appearance from the front since it doesn't match the interior illustrations from the BECMI guide (the WizKids figure is bustier than the illustration above). I readily admit my pre-conceived expectations include gendering the character as "male" but also admit that until Elmore weighed in, I had based this on ideas not explicitly in the painting itself.</p><p></p><p>5. Does the WizKids figurine matter to me? No. Will I continue thinking of the character depicted in the painting as male? Yes (both on the strength of my own assumed context over the past 40 years or so and on Elmore's assertion that the character he was painting was male in his head). Does it diminish my enjoyment of the piece if someone else thinks of the character as female? Not really.</p><p></p><p>All of this is to say:</p><p></p><p>Because the image originated in one person's head, that person is the final authority in what the image depcits (note this is different "is intended to depict").</p><p></p><p>This is a tempest in a teacup. Nobody needs to get too worked up about this.</p><p></p><p>I cannot prove the intent of WizKids, but it seems to me that their choice to gender the miniature as female is a cynical attempt to use subversion of expectations to generate "buzz" around their miniature and improve sales. In other words, I think it is a calculated attempt to rankle the "grognards" in the RPG community but not out of a genuine desire to challenge expectations in order to enlighten people, improve representation of traditionally underrepresented groups in the hobby, etc. ... I think the move was done as a calculated attempt to annoy in order to effect a cynical cash grab, and as such, I find it distasteful.</p><p></p><p>If the goal was to promote the visibility of female characters while celebrating the game's heritage and proving "women have been in D&D all along" I would much rather have seen them create a new rendition of the Moldvay B/X icon Morgan Ironwolf (perhaps with a breast reduction). This would have sparked all the feelings of nostalgia without cynically attempting to touch a nerve of annoyance.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://i.redd.it/morgan-ironwolf-dungeons-dragons-circa-1980-v0-2tm68470ls2b1.png?width=2554&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd314297124c810df92f30eecfe34336ed1b8d0a" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p><img src="https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/theglen/2881049/52098/52098_900.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Now, my opinions here may be wrong-headed or bigoted, but they're mine and I'm trying to be honest about them and how I feel about this.</p><p></p><p>As I said, I was a little annoyed when this came to my attention because it did not match my understanding of the original piece. But that feeling lasted maybe 5 minutes (maybe a little longer as it took a little longer to write this post) but then it's time to move on. This doesn't affect my life, game, or appreciation of the piece much one way or the other.</p><p></p><p>Most posts on this (both sides, including my post here) will probably involve some variation of</p><p></p><p><img src="https://morrisonsara.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/3ddd7-cant-stop-now-someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>and should be taken about as seriously as the above meme suggests.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 9340597, member: 2013"] I'm sure there will be some that want to jump on this take, but in the spirit of "you are entitled to your own opinions, but you aren't entitled to your own facts" I will just throw the following out there: 1. The original artist (Elmore) stated that the fighter depicted in the piece was male. Since the painting is not a photograph, but is rather a rendition of something Elmore held in his imagination, that should be the end of the discussion as to whether or not the figure in the painting is male or female. You create it, your definition is objectively correct. 2. My opinion: I always felt that the context around the piece was the Mentzger Basic set itself, specifically the "Introductory Solo Adventure" which was illustrated in Black & White, also by Elmore. To wit, in my head, we already HAD front views of the fighter in question (yes, I realize this view has a non-horned helmet, lower-half clothing doesn't match, etc. I didn't say I was [B]correct [/B]that they're the same person, just that[B] I always assumed [/B]they were the same person). For example: [IMG]https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiBjwVWOKT9MqTxg_BINada6756dpquhUv5AGPeAD8z_zZZQnQNzNW1f4JePLNqjR7mdneXjeWA8VHVjfrSNUSf77Xb-mxzuI2ZM6tHJvJYLa5uF-tZsH7Z9R4NPOJIzyd0iZ3E9YoRmU/s400/aleena+dead+cleric.jpg[/IMG] To my eyes, the fighter depicted from this angle looks male (going mostly on pectoral shape here; clearly facial hair would have read more "male"). Again, this is my opinion of the piece and on its context and is NOT an indisputable fact. 3. However, it's also important to note that the Introductory text uses the second-person pronoun "you" rather than a third-person "he" or "she" so there is nothing in the text itself that would lend credence to my opinion expressed in point #2 above. 4. I am bothered by the WizKids figurine not because it challenges my pre-conceived expectations about the character's gender, but rather because it challenges my pre-conceived expectations about the character's appearance from the front since it doesn't match the interior illustrations from the BECMI guide (the WizKids figure is bustier than the illustration above). I readily admit my pre-conceived expectations include gendering the character as "male" but also admit that until Elmore weighed in, I had based this on ideas not explicitly in the painting itself. 5. Does the WizKids figurine matter to me? No. Will I continue thinking of the character depicted in the painting as male? Yes (both on the strength of my own assumed context over the past 40 years or so and on Elmore's assertion that the character he was painting was male in his head). Does it diminish my enjoyment of the piece if someone else thinks of the character as female? Not really. All of this is to say: Because the image originated in one person's head, that person is the final authority in what the image depcits (note this is different "is intended to depict"). This is a tempest in a teacup. Nobody needs to get too worked up about this. I cannot prove the intent of WizKids, but it seems to me that their choice to gender the miniature as female is a cynical attempt to use subversion of expectations to generate "buzz" around their miniature and improve sales. In other words, I think it is a calculated attempt to rankle the "grognards" in the RPG community but not out of a genuine desire to challenge expectations in order to enlighten people, improve representation of traditionally underrepresented groups in the hobby, etc. ... I think the move was done as a calculated attempt to annoy in order to effect a cynical cash grab, and as such, I find it distasteful. If the goal was to promote the visibility of female characters while celebrating the game's heritage and proving "women have been in D&D all along" I would much rather have seen them create a new rendition of the Moldvay B/X icon Morgan Ironwolf (perhaps with a breast reduction). This would have sparked all the feelings of nostalgia without cynically attempting to touch a nerve of annoyance. [IMG]https://i.redd.it/morgan-ironwolf-dungeons-dragons-circa-1980-v0-2tm68470ls2b1.png?width=2554&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd314297124c810df92f30eecfe34336ed1b8d0a[/IMG] [IMG]https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/theglen/2881049/52098/52098_900.jpg[/IMG] Now, my opinions here may be wrong-headed or bigoted, but they're mine and I'm trying to be honest about them and how I feel about this. As I said, I was a little annoyed when this came to my attention because it did not match my understanding of the original piece. But that feeling lasted maybe 5 minutes (maybe a little longer as it took a little longer to write this post) but then it's time to move on. This doesn't affect my life, game, or appreciation of the piece much one way or the other. Most posts on this (both sides, including my post here) will probably involve some variation of [IMG]https://morrisonsara.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/3ddd7-cant-stop-now-someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet.jpg[/IMG] and should be taken about as seriously as the above meme suggests. [/QUOTE]
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