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D20 Modern vs. Spycraft: Tell me which one you like better
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<blockquote data-quote="Morgenstern" data-source="post: 2983874" data-attributes="member: 5485"><p>If I can weigh in for a moment on the spies-y-ness of Spycraft 2.0, I'd like to share a little <em>designer intent</em>.</p><p></p><p>The core book comes with 12 base classes.</p><p></p><p>Exactly one of them is "a spy".</p><p></p><p>The Faceman is maybe, sorta a part-time spy, being rooted in the con-artist, grifter, master of disguise shtick that some spies use to good effect. He really hails from the cerebral crime drama genres, but is on extended loan to the Agency after things like The Saint or even the old Mission: Impossible made the rounds. Deception and social grace are the new black - they go with everything modern and the Faceman <em>loves</em> a good party.</p><p></p><p>The Intruder is the other guy who often moonlights (literally) as a spy. He gets into places he's not supposed to be. He steals stuff. If that stuff happens to be secrets, then yes, he's spying that week. This guy shows up for a lot of modern parties too, but he's ussualy lurking over by the buffet table slipping diner rolls into his pockets.</p><p></p><p>The only 'real' spy is the Snoop. He's built from the ground up as an espionage archtype. ALL of the class abilites mentioned above as sounding like spy-stuff come from this one class: "Spookshow", "Black Hat", "Big Brother", "Eye in the Sky". If he <em>sounds</em> like he belongs in a spy game, then hell yes, things are working. Need to snatch a message without even making a check? That's some mighty fine Langley black magic and the Snoop is your go-to guy. He's also the only base class to get improved access to Tradecraft feats - that'll be important in a second.</p><p></p><p>Advocates, Explorers, Hackers, Pointmen, Scientists, Scouts, Slueths, Soldiers, and Wheelmen show up with their bags of tricks in spy flicks. They use their special skills when they get caught up in espionage affairs in the novels... But the Snoop? He Lives-and-Breathes espionage.</p><p></p><p>"Well how about gadgets? Those are <em>all</em> James Bond-ish, right?" Lets take a look at who gets gadgets: Explorers ("Yeah, it's some weird artifact I brought back from a dig in Mongolia. Mostly it hums, sometimes it does something usefull..."), Hackers ("<em>Dood</em>! Check this neat widget! I popped Globex's shipping database and the losers delivered it to my friggin' door! These things won't even hit beta 'til next year!), Intruders ("What!? Of course I brought a self-selecting laser-disrupt matrix. I've been casing this museum for six months... the security's top notch, but my supliers are too."), and Scientist ("I have got to show you my latest experiment - it's going to blow the old theories wide open!"). Advanced technology is <u>everywhere</u> in modern settings.</p><p></p><p>All of Spycraft's feats are sorted into trees. It's sort of like the way fighters get access to a big list of feats they can take with their class abilities in D&D, except that instead of having to add "This feat may be taken as a fighter bonus feat" 271 times as new books come out, the sorting is automatic. Certain classes get extra access to certain trees instead of fixed lists of feats - Facemen get bonus style feats, Intruders get bonus covert feats, Scouts get bonus terrain feats, Wheelmen get Chase feats, and so on. So, as new books come out, the old classes automatically update themselves. It's a nifty twist.</p><p></p><p>Spycraft has 13 of these trees. With various kinds of combat, chase, chance, covert, skill, and style feats flying around there is ONE tree called Tradecraft. It's the designated home of pure espionage stuff. Safe Houses around the world. Special interrogation techniques. Diabolical exotic poisons. Cover identities so strong even you don't always realize you're a sleeper.</p><p></p><p>And only one base class gets a choice of bonus feats from that tree - the Snoop.</p><p></p><p>If you pull the Tradecraft tree out of the game, it stops being super-spies... Instantly. It's still high octane and action packed. I <em><strong>quarantined</strong></em> those kinds of benefits to that tree exactly so that sort of switch would be causal to implement. The same way the upcoming high magic suplement keeps all of its spellcasting trappings in one tree where you can drop it in or pull it out in one pass with a statement to your players as brief as "This is a fantasy campaign, but there are going to be no Magic feats." Done. Simple.</p><p></p><p>If you pull the Tradecraft tree AND the Snoop class, it's not even spies (much less superspies) anymore. It maybe qualifies as covert action (meet Sam Fisher, Intruder). It could still be delta force (they are mostly Scouts and Pointmen). It might even be techno-thriller (Dale Brown writes some entertaining Wheelman stories with Advocates calling the shots), but "Superspies"? Nu-uh.</p><p></p><p>Action and attitude are scripted in as the defaults all over the place. But, if dropping 8% of your base class options and 6% of your feats strips it of its core <strong>espionage</strong> elements, is it really "Only a spies game"? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Morgenstern, post: 2983874, member: 5485"] If I can weigh in for a moment on the spies-y-ness of Spycraft 2.0, I'd like to share a little [I]designer intent[/I]. The core book comes with 12 base classes. Exactly one of them is "a spy". The Faceman is maybe, sorta a part-time spy, being rooted in the con-artist, grifter, master of disguise shtick that some spies use to good effect. He really hails from the cerebral crime drama genres, but is on extended loan to the Agency after things like The Saint or even the old Mission: Impossible made the rounds. Deception and social grace are the new black - they go with everything modern and the Faceman [I]loves[/I] a good party. The Intruder is the other guy who often moonlights (literally) as a spy. He gets into places he's not supposed to be. He steals stuff. If that stuff happens to be secrets, then yes, he's spying that week. This guy shows up for a lot of modern parties too, but he's ussualy lurking over by the buffet table slipping diner rolls into his pockets. The only 'real' spy is the Snoop. He's built from the ground up as an espionage archtype. ALL of the class abilites mentioned above as sounding like spy-stuff come from this one class: "Spookshow", "Black Hat", "Big Brother", "Eye in the Sky". If he [I]sounds[/I] like he belongs in a spy game, then hell yes, things are working. Need to snatch a message without even making a check? That's some mighty fine Langley black magic and the Snoop is your go-to guy. He's also the only base class to get improved access to Tradecraft feats - that'll be important in a second. Advocates, Explorers, Hackers, Pointmen, Scientists, Scouts, Slueths, Soldiers, and Wheelmen show up with their bags of tricks in spy flicks. They use their special skills when they get caught up in espionage affairs in the novels... But the Snoop? He Lives-and-Breathes espionage. "Well how about gadgets? Those are [I]all[/I] James Bond-ish, right?" Lets take a look at who gets gadgets: Explorers ("Yeah, it's some weird artifact I brought back from a dig in Mongolia. Mostly it hums, sometimes it does something usefull..."), Hackers ("[I]Dood[/I]! Check this neat widget! I popped Globex's shipping database and the losers delivered it to my friggin' door! These things won't even hit beta 'til next year!), Intruders ("What!? Of course I brought a self-selecting laser-disrupt matrix. I've been casing this museum for six months... the security's top notch, but my supliers are too."), and Scientist ("I have got to show you my latest experiment - it's going to blow the old theories wide open!"). Advanced technology is [U]everywhere[/U] in modern settings. All of Spycraft's feats are sorted into trees. It's sort of like the way fighters get access to a big list of feats they can take with their class abilities in D&D, except that instead of having to add "This feat may be taken as a fighter bonus feat" 271 times as new books come out, the sorting is automatic. Certain classes get extra access to certain trees instead of fixed lists of feats - Facemen get bonus style feats, Intruders get bonus covert feats, Scouts get bonus terrain feats, Wheelmen get Chase feats, and so on. So, as new books come out, the old classes automatically update themselves. It's a nifty twist. Spycraft has 13 of these trees. With various kinds of combat, chase, chance, covert, skill, and style feats flying around there is ONE tree called Tradecraft. It's the designated home of pure espionage stuff. Safe Houses around the world. Special interrogation techniques. Diabolical exotic poisons. Cover identities so strong even you don't always realize you're a sleeper. And only one base class gets a choice of bonus feats from that tree - the Snoop. If you pull the Tradecraft tree out of the game, it stops being super-spies... Instantly. It's still high octane and action packed. I [I][B]quarantined[/B][/I] those kinds of benefits to that tree exactly so that sort of switch would be causal to implement. The same way the upcoming high magic suplement keeps all of its spellcasting trappings in one tree where you can drop it in or pull it out in one pass with a statement to your players as brief as "This is a fantasy campaign, but there are going to be no Magic feats." Done. Simple. If you pull the Tradecraft tree AND the Snoop class, it's not even spies (much less superspies) anymore. It maybe qualifies as covert action (meet Sam Fisher, Intruder). It could still be delta force (they are mostly Scouts and Pointmen). It might even be techno-thriller (Dale Brown writes some entertaining Wheelman stories with Advocates calling the shots), but "Superspies"? Nu-uh. Action and attitude are scripted in as the defaults all over the place. But, if dropping 8% of your base class options and 6% of your feats strips it of its core [B]espionage[/B] elements, is it really "Only a spies game"? :p [/QUOTE]
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