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Dark Delirium (Archfey Warlock) -- clearing out cobwebs
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<blockquote data-quote="merwins" data-source="post: 7055513" data-attributes="member: 6829883"><p>I'm finding it difficult to parse Dark Delirium, and I fully acknowledge that I'm likely reading too much into it. Blame it on general English geekiness and micro-analysis. </p><p></p><p>The following Dark Delirium description was grabbed from the 5E Fandom wikia, but I have inserted line breaks as they appear in my PHB: </p><p><span style="color: #daa520">Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span></p><p></p><p>If I read this linearly, I have to make a number of assumptions, but the most straightforward results in the following: </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warlock picks a legal target.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Target rolls a saving throw. If Target fails, they're "lost" and either charmed or frightened. If Target saves, nothing happens.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The lost and charmed or frightened statuses last for 1 minute or until concentration is broken or the target takes any damage.</li> </ul><p></p><p>But then I slowed down and started over. </p><p>Hurl Through Hell and Create Thrall are comparable abilities attained at Warlock 14. They have NO SAVING THROW (but HtH does have the conditional "not a fiend"). </p><p></p><p>So why is Dark Delirium different? Just because it takes a minute? Maybe it's not supposed to be different. </p><p></p><p>If I parse the description a different way, I can interpret it so: </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span></p><p>This is going to happen. No save. Very similar to the first sentence of the other two patrons. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span></p><p>Now we're getting into the detail of the illusion -- its mechanical impact. And we're introducing a charm or frighten status usually doesn't happen with illusions -- it's the result of a SEPARATE enchantment. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span>Here's where I suffered a major disconnect. I read "this effect" as referring to the charm/frighten impact, which is the enchantment effect, NOT the illusion effect. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span>NOW we're back to the illusion, and the impact thereof. </p><p></p><p>So the net result is actually: </p><p><span style="color: #daa520">Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span><span style="color: #daa520">As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. </span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice). </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">All these effects</span> <span style="color: #daa520">end after 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell) or if the creature takes any damage.</span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520">You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #daa520"></span></p><p>Why bother? Only because it irked me that this was the only Patron that required a save for its 14th-level effect. This gives the Warlock the ability to shunt a creature out of combat (until it takes damage) EVEN IF it makes it's save vs charm/fear. Still not as persistent as Create Thrall, and not as inherently damaging as Hurl through Hell. But it feels more on par. </p><p></p><p>Thoughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="merwins, post: 7055513, member: 6829883"] I'm finding it difficult to parse Dark Delirium, and I fully acknowledge that I'm likely reading too much into it. Blame it on general English geekiness and micro-analysis. The following Dark Delirium description was grabbed from the 5E Fandom wikia, but I have inserted line breaks as they appear in my PHB: [COLOR=#daa520]Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage. Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again. [/COLOR] If I read this linearly, I have to make a number of assumptions, but the most straightforward results in the following: [LIST] [*]Warlock picks a legal target. [*]Target rolls a saving throw. If Target fails, they're "lost" and either charmed or frightened. If Target saves, nothing happens. [*]The lost and charmed or frightened statuses last for 1 minute or until concentration is broken or the target takes any damage. [/LIST] But then I slowed down and started over. Hurl Through Hell and Create Thrall are comparable abilities attained at Warlock 14. They have NO SAVING THROW (but HtH does have the conditional "not a fiend"). So why is Dark Delirium different? Just because it takes a minute? Maybe it's not supposed to be different. If I parse the description a different way, I can interpret it so: [COLOR=#daa520]Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. [/COLOR] This is going to happen. No save. Very similar to the first sentence of the other two patrons. [COLOR=#daa520]As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). [/COLOR] Now we're getting into the detail of the illusion -- its mechanical impact. And we're introducing a charm or frighten status usually doesn't happen with illusions -- it's the result of a SEPARATE enchantment. [COLOR=#daa520]This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage. [/COLOR]Here's where I suffered a major disconnect. I read "this effect" as referring to the charm/frighten impact, which is the enchantment effect, NOT the illusion effect. [COLOR=#daa520]Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again. [/COLOR]NOW we're back to the illusion, and the impact thereof. So the net result is actually: [COLOR=#daa520]Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. [/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520]As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice). [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000]All these effects[/COLOR] [COLOR=#daa520]end after 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell) or if the creature takes any damage.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#daa520]You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again. [/COLOR] Why bother? Only because it irked me that this was the only Patron that required a save for its 14th-level effect. This gives the Warlock the ability to shunt a creature out of combat (until it takes damage) EVEN IF it makes it's save vs charm/fear. Still not as persistent as Create Thrall, and not as inherently damaging as Hurl through Hell. But it feels more on par. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]
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