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DDEX1-2 Secrets of Sokol Keep GM notes and discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Ricochet" data-source="post: 6737525" data-attributes="member: 2024"><p><strong>Originally posted by AlHazred:</strong></p><p></p><p>I ran this a few weeks ago, and realized I forgot to put my input in the thread.</p><p> </p><p>My group managed (barely) not to start killing people in the bar-fight -- I think a lot of the 4E groups I ran have become accustomed to solving their problems that way. The funny thing is that the group consisted of: wood elf ranger, tiefling warlock, dragonborn sorcerer, human cleric, human rogue, and human fighter. Half the party had great Charisma scores and skill in interactions -- once they got out of the "fight" mindset (when they realized the bar-fighters were using their fists only) they easily talked the situation down. I think even groups with all 8s in Charisma have a good chance of talking the rowdies out of the fight, which is something I like to see in modules. It should come down to player choices, not character optimization, to create solutions.</p><p>I played the island as spooky, trying to give it a creepy feel. I played the groundskeeper for laughs, having him be startled and knocking over his campstove each time a PC came back from exploring to ask him a question. They eventually discovered the secret shrine and the means to opening the deeper caverns. The animated armor fight has hard because of the high AC, but I played the armor without any tactics and that helped -- I recommend encouraging players to use Help actions, and actually describe HOW their character is helping. Describe the location in detail and don't be afraid to put stuff in the room that wasn't in the description, so that players can have their characters do swashbuckly or clever things to help out.</p><p>The ghoul fight was also extremely hard for my group. I was surprised I didn't kill off any characters in it, but it was because the heavily-armored paladin made some lucky die rolls and didn't drown. Compared to that fight, the final fight was easy, though the ghouls arriving from behind gave them a nasty surprise.</p><p>My group didn't even really understand that there was a ghost at all. Without the ghost compelling my players overtly, I realized they were probably going to let the Black Fists go, because they hadn't made the connection with the beacon outage. Fortunately the cleric was a cleric of Kelemvor, and once I reminded her of that, she took steps to bring Grim to justice.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by SteveMND:</strong></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Nor did mine; that said, however, the whole 'knife in the back of the guy slumped over the altarstone' certainly gives strong pause to even the most oblivous of characters that something untowards happened, and even more so if you drop subtle- and not-so-subtle hints that the dagger was one used by a Black Fist (I make sure to note it as being a new, clean dagger, as opposed to the coroded, older weapons used by the skeeltons, it having a black-corded hilt, be the same type as the rescued BFs have, and make it apparently to anyone who happens to be looking for it, that Grimm happenes to have an empty dagger scabbard at his side). Most parties so far have put 2 and 2 together and brought him to justice -- with or without a fight -- and as such, the lighthouse resumes operation regardless of whether or not they knew exactly why.</p><p> </p><p>My only problem with the module has been the fact that if the lighthouse is so important, why has no-one official bothered to head out and invetigate before the players get involved? Clearly, it's been enough of a hassle that the dockworkers and sailors are getting upset that they are losing business, and while it mentions that the BFs and House Sokol are bickering over the responsibility of the issue, I have a hard time justifying why no-one hsa bothered to just <em>go out there.</em> I mean, it's barely a bowshot out from the dock, and not like it's some isolated outpost that we lost communication from weeks ago or something. I've been covering for that aspect by really playing up the bickering and red tape involved between the two groups, but it seems awkward still, unless I missed something in the background to explain it away?</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Tscharod:</strong></p><p></p><p>I have played it in a way, that house Sokol and the Black Fist were blaming each other doing nothing. Also I played both group's representatives in a way of incompetent to take the lead. More difficulties I had to convince the players to do something without any kind reward like gold etc. because nobody really hired them.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Uthrac:</strong></p><p></p><p> </p><p>This ...</p><p> </p><p>PLUS ...</p><p> </p><p>We weren't under any time constraints, so I had each PC get contacted by a representative of their faction to check things out, on behalf of the faction, and report back anything they learn. As a happy coincidence, the two Harper PCs had no interest in participating in the bar fight, which provided the perfect distraction for an NPC to say, "Psst ... over here."</p><p> </p><p>In any case, this was a great follow-up to the DDEX1-1 adventure flavor of "In Expeditions, you're generally doing stuff to help the factions." Renown was a trump to gold, in that players felt motivated enough to help their faction (to gaine renown/prestige), even if none of the locals offered coin.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by AlHazred:</strong></p><p></p><p>The groups I run for have already decided that the Black Fist, whatever greatness it used to have, has become a nest of lazy, entitled jerks. After all, they mostly ignored a farmer's goblin issue in DDEX1-1, essentially saying, "Eh, you handle it." It's GOBLINS. Immediately outside the CITY. Don't they want advance warning if goblins are about to invade? </p><p>And then the Sokol family is in dire straits, financially. I figure everyone competent is busy, and the people left who could be sent are basically menials and spear-carriers, not suited to handle anything unusual, which the beacon going out definitely is.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Pauper:</strong></p><p></p><p>Goblins? Invade? Heh. Nice one.</p><p> </p><p>I wish I had pointed it up a bit more when I ran the mod, but this is a good module to point up that the people having problems generally don't have the power to fix them (the dockworkers, the halfling merchants in the inn), while the people who do have the power don't really see the issues as their own problems (the Black Fist pointing out that House Sokol administers the lighthouse, while House Sokol points out that the Black Fist protects it).</p><p> </p><p>It'll also help foreshadow some of the other meta-plot things happening later, such as the factions becoming more active, and the guilds looking for political power.</p><p> </p><p>--</p><p>Pauper</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ricochet, post: 6737525, member: 2024"] [b]Originally posted by AlHazred:[/b] I ran this a few weeks ago, and realized I forgot to put my input in the thread. My group managed (barely) not to start killing people in the bar-fight -- I think a lot of the 4E groups I ran have become accustomed to solving their problems that way. The funny thing is that the group consisted of: wood elf ranger, tiefling warlock, dragonborn sorcerer, human cleric, human rogue, and human fighter. Half the party had great Charisma scores and skill in interactions -- once they got out of the "fight" mindset (when they realized the bar-fighters were using their fists only) they easily talked the situation down. I think even groups with all 8s in Charisma have a good chance of talking the rowdies out of the fight, which is something I like to see in modules. It should come down to player choices, not character optimization, to create solutions. I played the island as spooky, trying to give it a creepy feel. I played the groundskeeper for laughs, having him be startled and knocking over his campstove each time a PC came back from exploring to ask him a question. They eventually discovered the secret shrine and the means to opening the deeper caverns. The animated armor fight has hard because of the high AC, but I played the armor without any tactics and that helped -- I recommend encouraging players to use Help actions, and actually describe HOW their character is helping. Describe the location in detail and don't be afraid to put stuff in the room that wasn't in the description, so that players can have their characters do swashbuckly or clever things to help out. The ghoul fight was also extremely hard for my group. I was surprised I didn't kill off any characters in it, but it was because the heavily-armored paladin made some lucky die rolls and didn't drown. Compared to that fight, the final fight was easy, though the ghouls arriving from behind gave them a nasty surprise. My group didn't even really understand that there was a ghost at all. Without the ghost compelling my players overtly, I realized they were probably going to let the Black Fists go, because they hadn't made the connection with the beacon outage. Fortunately the cleric was a cleric of Kelemvor, and once I reminded her of that, she took steps to bring Grim to justice. [b]Originally posted by SteveMND:[/b] Nor did mine; that said, however, the whole 'knife in the back of the guy slumped over the altarstone' certainly gives strong pause to even the most oblivous of characters that something untowards happened, and even more so if you drop subtle- and not-so-subtle hints that the dagger was one used by a Black Fist (I make sure to note it as being a new, clean dagger, as opposed to the coroded, older weapons used by the skeeltons, it having a black-corded hilt, be the same type as the rescued BFs have, and make it apparently to anyone who happens to be looking for it, that Grimm happenes to have an empty dagger scabbard at his side). Most parties so far have put 2 and 2 together and brought him to justice -- with or without a fight -- and as such, the lighthouse resumes operation regardless of whether or not they knew exactly why. My only problem with the module has been the fact that if the lighthouse is so important, why has no-one official bothered to head out and invetigate before the players get involved? Clearly, it's been enough of a hassle that the dockworkers and sailors are getting upset that they are losing business, and while it mentions that the BFs and House Sokol are bickering over the responsibility of the issue, I have a hard time justifying why no-one hsa bothered to just [i]go out there.[/i] I mean, it's barely a bowshot out from the dock, and not like it's some isolated outpost that we lost communication from weeks ago or something. I've been covering for that aspect by really playing up the bickering and red tape involved between the two groups, but it seems awkward still, unless I missed something in the background to explain it away? [b]Originally posted by Tscharod:[/b] I have played it in a way, that house Sokol and the Black Fist were blaming each other doing nothing. Also I played both group's representatives in a way of incompetent to take the lead. More difficulties I had to convince the players to do something without any kind reward like gold etc. because nobody really hired them. [b]Originally posted by Uthrac:[/b] This ... PLUS ... We weren't under any time constraints, so I had each PC get contacted by a representative of their faction to check things out, on behalf of the faction, and report back anything they learn. As a happy coincidence, the two Harper PCs had no interest in participating in the bar fight, which provided the perfect distraction for an NPC to say, "Psst ... over here." In any case, this was a great follow-up to the DDEX1-1 adventure flavor of "In Expeditions, you're generally doing stuff to help the factions." Renown was a trump to gold, in that players felt motivated enough to help their faction (to gaine renown/prestige), even if none of the locals offered coin. [b]Originally posted by AlHazred:[/b] The groups I run for have already decided that the Black Fist, whatever greatness it used to have, has become a nest of lazy, entitled jerks. After all, they mostly ignored a farmer's goblin issue in DDEX1-1, essentially saying, "Eh, you handle it." It's GOBLINS. Immediately outside the CITY. Don't they want advance warning if goblins are about to invade? And then the Sokol family is in dire straits, financially. I figure everyone competent is busy, and the people left who could be sent are basically menials and spear-carriers, not suited to handle anything unusual, which the beacon going out definitely is. [b]Originally posted by Pauper:[/b] Goblins? Invade? Heh. Nice one. I wish I had pointed it up a bit more when I ran the mod, but this is a good module to point up that the people having problems generally don't have the power to fix them (the dockworkers, the halfling merchants in the inn), while the people who do have the power don't really see the issues as their own problems (the Black Fist pointing out that House Sokol administers the lighthouse, while House Sokol points out that the Black Fist protects it). It'll also help foreshadow some of the other meta-plot things happening later, such as the factions becoming more active, and the guilds looking for political power. -- Pauper [/QUOTE]
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