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<blockquote data-quote="thedungeondelver" data-source="post: 5794362" data-attributes="member: 34865"><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">First of all, let me just say this about that: <strong>B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS</strong>? Cool. Very, very cool. While those sheets are impossible to read, I also don't see a lot of clutter on them so it could be that the base game is yes indeed a very streamlined and easy-to-snap-onto form factor. Looking forward to more info.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">Now, regarding minis...</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">I don't not want minis. I have two dozen <strong>DWARVEN FORGE</strong> sets, some 500 plastic minis and 300 metal (about 1/5th of which are painted).</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"><strong>I like me some miniatures and terrain as an AD&D player, however...</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">Insofar as <strong>DWARVEN FORGE</strong> is very subtly carved into grids, I do not <strong>use</strong> a gridded combat system. Most miniatures are "heroic" 28mm scale, which is to say they are 32-35mm. Even <strong>WIZARDS OF THE COAST</strong>'s miniatures feature a 1" round base. This means that two man-sized figures can just stand in a corridor of <strong>DWARVEN FORGE</strong>, which I want to represent the average 10' (2") dungeon hall. Scale combat rules for <strong>AD&D</strong> dictate that <strong>three</strong> man-sized figures can fight abreast in a hall, four smaller humanoids or demi-humans can (gnome/halfling/kobold/goblin etc.) and so on. Current miniatures don't afford me the room to do that. <strong>Thus</strong>, miniatures (and terrain) are for <strong>general placement</strong> only when it comes to the figures themselves. Spell areas of effect I hew more closely to the rules on, noting that just because a group of figures may be crammed in at odd angles on the terrain, that does not mean that they are not as they claimed they were - woebetide the low-level, closely grouped party that encounters an enemy magic-user with a <strong>sleep</strong> spell (or indeed is incautious with their own)!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">What irks me is not the miniatures and frankly I boggle at my fellow <strong>AD&D</strong> fans who are dismissive of them; no, what gets under my skin is the <strong>insistence</strong> on them, and the ridiculous (and I mean that literally: it is, should be and has been rightly the target of ridicule) "gridding" rules that accompany later miniature play!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'">Were we playing at Roundheads and Cavaliers, or the desperate struggle of a fire-team in the jungles of Southeast Asia, or an arbitrary but agreed-upon set of rules for fantastical future conflict mapped on a sand table or foam terrain out-of-doors, yes, then precise measurements should be the rule of the day! But insofar as Redoleent the Fighter's plastic avatar can't be wedged in between Gutboy Barrelhouse, the expertly painted <strong>REAPER MINIATURES</strong> dwarf and the chess-piece representing the cleric, I think some room for abstraction is in order, and not forcing a grid-only, miniatures-not-optional rule gives we DMs (and players!) the breathing room we need, yes?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'century gothic'"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thedungeondelver, post: 5794362, member: 34865"] [font=century gothic] First of all, let me just say this about that: [b]B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS[/B]? Cool. Very, very cool. While those sheets are impossible to read, I also don't see a lot of clutter on them so it could be that the base game is yes indeed a very streamlined and easy-to-snap-onto form factor. Looking forward to more info. Now, regarding minis... I don't not want minis. I have two dozen [b]DWARVEN FORGE[/b] sets, some 500 plastic minis and 300 metal (about 1/5th of which are painted). [b]I like me some miniatures and terrain as an AD&D player, however...[/b] Insofar as [b]DWARVEN FORGE[/b] is very subtly carved into grids, I do not [b]use[/b] a gridded combat system. Most miniatures are "heroic" 28mm scale, which is to say they are 32-35mm. Even [b]WIZARDS OF THE COAST[/b]'s miniatures feature a 1" round base. This means that two man-sized figures can just stand in a corridor of [b]DWARVEN FORGE[/b], which I want to represent the average 10' (2") dungeon hall. Scale combat rules for [b]AD&D[/b] dictate that [b]three[/b] man-sized figures can fight abreast in a hall, four smaller humanoids or demi-humans can (gnome/halfling/kobold/goblin etc.) and so on. Current miniatures don't afford me the room to do that. [b]Thus[/b], miniatures (and terrain) are for [b]general placement[/b] only when it comes to the figures themselves. Spell areas of effect I hew more closely to the rules on, noting that just because a group of figures may be crammed in at odd angles on the terrain, that does not mean that they are not as they claimed they were - woebetide the low-level, closely grouped party that encounters an enemy magic-user with a [b]sleep[/b] spell (or indeed is incautious with their own)! What irks me is not the miniatures and frankly I boggle at my fellow [b]AD&D[/b] fans who are dismissive of them; no, what gets under my skin is the [b]insistence[/b] on them, and the ridiculous (and I mean that literally: it is, should be and has been rightly the target of ridicule) "gridding" rules that accompany later miniature play! Were we playing at Roundheads and Cavaliers, or the desperate struggle of a fire-team in the jungles of Southeast Asia, or an arbitrary but agreed-upon set of rules for fantastical future conflict mapped on a sand table or foam terrain out-of-doors, yes, then precise measurements should be the rule of the day! But insofar as Redoleent the Fighter's plastic avatar can't be wedged in between Gutboy Barrelhouse, the expertly painted [b]REAPER MINIATURES[/b] dwarf and the chess-piece representing the cleric, I think some room for abstraction is in order, and not forcing a grid-only, miniatures-not-optional rule gives we DMs (and players!) the breathing room we need, yes? [/font] [/QUOTE]
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