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Dealing with agency and retcon (in semi sandbox)
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9065542" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't follow you.</p><p></p><p>First, Fea-bella is a PC, who thus exists only in imagination. We're talking about player agency, a real thing in the real world.</p><p></p><p>Second, the reason that the PCs are encountering Asfaloth is because one of the players built a PC - Fea-bella - with an adventuring friend, an Elven ranger whom the PCs have set out to try and rescue. The players have set their own goal (well, goals - there are two PCs and the scenario I had prepared spoke to both of them).</p><p></p><p>Third, the players knew there was a hole in the ground, and declared an action to have their PCs enter it. Had the check succeeded, then they would have achieved their goal and the PCs would have descended safely into the dungeon.</p><p></p><p>I don't see how we can even say anything about player agency if we are not talking about the purposes for which bits of fiction are established. Given that agency in RPGing is all about <em>shaping the shared fiction</em>, the purposes for which shared fiction is established is practically determinative of the extent and manner in which it manifests agency.</p><p></p><p>From your OP:</p><p>You gave the players a quest. You established the consequences of permitting the noble to perform the ritual (including not only the triggering of the curse, but the killing of the rest of the family).</p><p></p><p>So when the players have their PCs accept the quest, that is not an exercise of their agency. (Suppose they had their PCs say "no" - what was that evening's play going to be about?)</p><p></p><p>When the players collect the body and hand it over, the consequence of that is not known to them and has been authored by you as part of the secret backstory. Again, there is no exercise by them of any agency.</p><p></p><p>Also from your OP and another post upthread:</p><p></p><p>As you set it out here, the player of the paladin <em>did not</em> know what was at stake in the decision about whether to enter or not enter the crypt, and the player was declaring actions based on their best guess as to what you as GM expected them to do in order to make the scenario work.</p><p></p><p>Again, I don't see any exercise of agency here by the paladin. The shape of the shared fiction is entirely under your control as GM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9065542, member: 42582"] I don't follow you. First, Fea-bella is a PC, who thus exists only in imagination. We're talking about player agency, a real thing in the real world. Second, the reason that the PCs are encountering Asfaloth is because one of the players built a PC - Fea-bella - with an adventuring friend, an Elven ranger whom the PCs have set out to try and rescue. The players have set their own goal (well, goals - there are two PCs and the scenario I had prepared spoke to both of them). Third, the players knew there was a hole in the ground, and declared an action to have their PCs enter it. Had the check succeeded, then they would have achieved their goal and the PCs would have descended safely into the dungeon. I don't see how we can even say anything about player agency if we are not talking about the purposes for which bits of fiction are established. Given that agency in RPGing is all about [I]shaping the shared fiction[/I], the purposes for which shared fiction is established is practically determinative of the extent and manner in which it manifests agency. From your OP: You gave the players a quest. You established the consequences of permitting the noble to perform the ritual (including not only the triggering of the curse, but the killing of the rest of the family). So when the players have their PCs accept the quest, that is not an exercise of their agency. (Suppose they had their PCs say "no" - what was that evening's play going to be about?) When the players collect the body and hand it over, the consequence of that is not known to them and has been authored by you as part of the secret backstory. Again, there is no exercise by them of any agency. Also from your OP and another post upthread: As you set it out here, the player of the paladin [I]did not[/I] know what was at stake in the decision about whether to enter or not enter the crypt, and the player was declaring actions based on their best guess as to what you as GM expected them to do in order to make the scenario work. Again, I don't see any exercise of agency here by the paladin. The shape of the shared fiction is entirely under your control as GM. [/QUOTE]
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