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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dealing with agency and retcon (in semi sandbox)
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9067142" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>Unfortunately, this is very much a case of "I know it when I see it." Its going to be next to impossible to define in any hard and fast way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. After all, the possibility that another shop somewhere relatively nearby might have something you want is well into the <em>foreseable</em>. You may not know the precise likelihood, but its something you can reasonably expect. In addition, if you care, you can likely check it out first before you do it. It obviously provides less agency than if you knew all the shops in the area and what they had at any given time, but as I noted in the post you quoted, "less" is not the same as "none".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, because poker is not a black box. There are a lot of things visible to you that can allow you to make intelligent assessment, and the more skilled you are the more you'll be able to do so. And information becomes more and more visible to you across play.</p><p></p><p>There are very few gambling games that are entirely lacking in agency, though purely random ones like some dice games come close (especially when the rules obscure the probability sufficiently for the routine players). Card games are actually relatively high in agency as a group, because the play process gives you progressively more information and provides you with a lot of meaningful choice in your play.</p><p></p><p>Again, here, remember I'm agreeing with Umbran that its a spectrum. Also note my last comment on that post: there's not any real agency if the choice is a forgone conclusion given the extent criteria (and this can occasionally happen in card games; you'll see people refer to bridge hands that pretty much "play themselves" sometimes for a reason).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9067142, member: 7026617"] Unfortunately, this is very much a case of "I know it when I see it." Its going to be next to impossible to define in any hard and fast way. Nope. After all, the possibility that another shop somewhere relatively nearby might have something you want is well into the [I]foreseable[/I]. You may not know the precise likelihood, but its something you can reasonably expect. In addition, if you care, you can likely check it out first before you do it. It obviously provides less agency than if you knew all the shops in the area and what they had at any given time, but as I noted in the post you quoted, "less" is not the same as "none". No, because poker is not a black box. There are a lot of things visible to you that can allow you to make intelligent assessment, and the more skilled you are the more you'll be able to do so. And information becomes more and more visible to you across play. There are very few gambling games that are entirely lacking in agency, though purely random ones like some dice games come close (especially when the rules obscure the probability sufficiently for the routine players). Card games are actually relatively high in agency as a group, because the play process gives you progressively more information and provides you with a lot of meaningful choice in your play. Again, here, remember I'm agreeing with Umbran that its a spectrum. Also note my last comment on that post: there's not any real agency if the choice is a forgone conclusion given the extent criteria (and this can occasionally happen in card games; you'll see people refer to bridge hands that pretty much "play themselves" sometimes for a reason). [/QUOTE]
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