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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dealing with agency and retcon (in semi sandbox)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9070703" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>But in common forms of play, such as D&D 5e, the GM has complete and utter say as to what sort of set of successes (or failures) must be strung together in order to achieve something. So again there is a lack of player agency! See, for example, many of my discussions of 4e Skill Challenge mechanics, which put a structure around this sort of formulation and thus move things in the direction of a state such as you are trying to describe. Simple chains of GM selected task outcomes will never achieve that. (I mean, we can argue about ways the GM in a 4e game can still put their thumb on the scale, but at least there's a MODEL for how it is supposed to be, particularly if you use the most updated SC rules).</p><p></p><p>Likewise in a game like Dungeon World the nexus of accomplishment of goal/injection of additional complication is COLLAPSED down onto each check, so if the GM follows the principles of the game properly, then the player can gauge the degree of agency they have because the stakes are, in a game sense at least, pretty well-understood.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9070703, member: 82106"] But in common forms of play, such as D&D 5e, the GM has complete and utter say as to what sort of set of successes (or failures) must be strung together in order to achieve something. So again there is a lack of player agency! See, for example, many of my discussions of 4e Skill Challenge mechanics, which put a structure around this sort of formulation and thus move things in the direction of a state such as you are trying to describe. Simple chains of GM selected task outcomes will never achieve that. (I mean, we can argue about ways the GM in a 4e game can still put their thumb on the scale, but at least there's a MODEL for how it is supposed to be, particularly if you use the most updated SC rules). Likewise in a game like Dungeon World the nexus of accomplishment of goal/injection of additional complication is COLLAPSED down onto each check, so if the GM follows the principles of the game properly, then the player can gauge the degree of agency they have because the stakes are, in a game sense at least, pretty well-understood. [/QUOTE]
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