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*TTRPGs General
Dealing with agency and retcon (in semi sandbox)
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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9070734" data-attributes="member: 6690965"><p>It is frustrating to see the case I'm suggesting relegated to dungeoncrawling presumptively. I'll concede the difficulty of designing an adequate social interaction system that generally serves the goals of play better than "just make it up as you go" but I don't think the field has established it as an intractable problem yet. Outside of that perennially difficult problem, there's nothing that requires characters enter holes in the ground to retrieve treasure to establish a TTRPG that has a strong gameplay component. That's just the historical case that came first.</p><p></p><p>This is entirely your division, not mine. I don't particularly care about the lines you seem to be trying to draw here. It's all boards with available moves all the way down, some of those games don't feature particularly engaging decisions.</p><p></p><p>Again, I don't see a conflict at all here with my point. You're describing narrative agency, a thing I said earlier was intrinsic to TTRPGs, precisely because they allow players to set their own victory conditions. I frankly agree that it is a compelling an interesting part of the medium, but it is not the same thing as ludic agency, and designs and decisions that maximize for narrative agency can and often do erode ludic agency. I'm quite specifically saying that conflating the two does not provide a complete picture of player agency.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 9070734, member: 6690965"] It is frustrating to see the case I'm suggesting relegated to dungeoncrawling presumptively. I'll concede the difficulty of designing an adequate social interaction system that generally serves the goals of play better than "just make it up as you go" but I don't think the field has established it as an intractable problem yet. Outside of that perennially difficult problem, there's nothing that requires characters enter holes in the ground to retrieve treasure to establish a TTRPG that has a strong gameplay component. That's just the historical case that came first. This is entirely your division, not mine. I don't particularly care about the lines you seem to be trying to draw here. It's all boards with available moves all the way down, some of those games don't feature particularly engaging decisions. Again, I don't see a conflict at all here with my point. You're describing narrative agency, a thing I said earlier was intrinsic to TTRPGs, precisely because they allow players to set their own victory conditions. I frankly agree that it is a compelling an interesting part of the medium, but it is not the same thing as ludic agency, and designs and decisions that maximize for narrative agency can and often do erode ludic agency. I'm quite specifically saying that conflating the two does not provide a complete picture of player agency. [/QUOTE]
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