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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8864646" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>So you can't do it. That's not the math. That's the tool their math gives you to figure out CR. It tells you nothing about why 54.6 is good for CR 8 against a party of 4. And no, because hit points of the party has between 59 and 85 hit points is not it. At least the tools in the DMG doesn't say that. Nor are hit points the only measure of CR.</p><p></p><p>That's the tool, not the math. Especially since you did it wrong. A DC 17 doesn't make it CR 11 or 12. Let's say it's a CR 8 creature that relies on that save. Since it's not 2 points higher than the 16 for CR 8, it remains CR 8 despite using a 17. What's more I can make it DC 19, which is fine for level 17-20 CR according to the chart, but the CR of the creature we're building only goes from 8 to 9. And we can adjust the save DC for the creature like that per Step 3.</p><p></p><p>Where's the math that explains why it happens that way? Not in the DMG, that's for sure.</p><p></p><p>You made a false claim. It's not pedantry to correct you. It's a fact, not a theory. They mean very different things.</p><p></p><p>Really? Show me the math on why invisibility doesn't, but constrict does. Where's the math on why the effective attack bonus of a creature with blood frenzy goes up by exactly 4, even though the ability is not always in use and advantage has varying effectiveness based on AC?</p><p></p><p>If you guys don't track food, you are house ruling the game to get rid of the food consumption rules.</p><p></p><p>It's not applicable here. I looked at what it was and since you're just repeating it Ad Nauseam(applicable Latin Phrase), I figured I'd throw a non-applicable Latin phrase back at you.</p><p></p><p>All other things are not equal when comparing two classes like this. That you think it is is why you get into white room trouble so often. White room stuff is rarely applicable to how the game actually plays.</p><p></p><p>Fine. Let's say you deliberately built one that you could "beat" with the clerics, rather than one with useful abilities that would be chosen.</p><p></p><p>In a real fight, it wouldn't work out the way your white room comparisons do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8864646, member: 23751"] So you can't do it. That's not the math. That's the tool their math gives you to figure out CR. It tells you nothing about why 54.6 is good for CR 8 against a party of 4. And no, because hit points of the party has between 59 and 85 hit points is not it. At least the tools in the DMG doesn't say that. Nor are hit points the only measure of CR. That's the tool, not the math. Especially since you did it wrong. A DC 17 doesn't make it CR 11 or 12. Let's say it's a CR 8 creature that relies on that save. Since it's not 2 points higher than the 16 for CR 8, it remains CR 8 despite using a 17. What's more I can make it DC 19, which is fine for level 17-20 CR according to the chart, but the CR of the creature we're building only goes from 8 to 9. And we can adjust the save DC for the creature like that per Step 3. Where's the math that explains why it happens that way? Not in the DMG, that's for sure. You made a false claim. It's not pedantry to correct you. It's a fact, not a theory. They mean very different things. Really? Show me the math on why invisibility doesn't, but constrict does. Where's the math on why the effective attack bonus of a creature with blood frenzy goes up by exactly 4, even though the ability is not always in use and advantage has varying effectiveness based on AC? If you guys don't track food, you are house ruling the game to get rid of the food consumption rules. It's not applicable here. I looked at what it was and since you're just repeating it Ad Nauseam(applicable Latin Phrase), I figured I'd throw a non-applicable Latin phrase back at you. All other things are not equal when comparing two classes like this. That you think it is is why you get into white room trouble so often. White room stuff is rarely applicable to how the game actually plays. Fine. Let's say you deliberately built one that you could "beat" with the clerics, rather than one with useful abilities that would be chosen. In a real fight, it wouldn't work out the way your white room comparisons do. [/QUOTE]
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