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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8844443" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>If they're good mechanics, it's fine. Most are clunky messes that don't do that good of a job emulating the genre tropes.</p><p></p><p>The games with the best heist mechanics, that I'm aware of, are Blades in the Dark and Leverage. I'm more recently familiar with BitD and it's been a few years since I read Leverage. It's a really hard genre element to put in games well. People who want immersion will tend to want to actually go through the process of planning things beforehand, which is a nightmare. People who are okay with metacurrency and explicitly gamey elements will be cool with BitD's flashbacks. As much as I love immersion, I don't want to sit through another session filled with the players bumbling their way through planning some overly involved thing that's stupid from the off and depends on their false impressions or goes off the rails with a single failed die roll. Just gimme the stress track and flashbacks.</p><p></p><p>It's a tough one. They make more sense in focused games and lots of dedicated subsystems tend to clutter up games. I tend to prefer systems that are fewer in rules where those rules are more broadly applicable. It's easier to internalize those fewer rules and easier to play rather than looking up the minutia of rules for everything.</p><p></p><p>I like laser-focused games for one-shots or short campaigns, like 5-6 sessions. Anything longer than that and I want something that's more broadly useful and playable. I want variety.</p><p></p><p>Pulling in dedicated subsystems is great. The only trouble is having to explain those subsystems. Unfortunately, a lot of players think they can't make decisions without having some kind of system mastery, so porting in the flashback rules into D&D, for example, causes all kinds of problems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8844443, member: 86653"] If they're good mechanics, it's fine. Most are clunky messes that don't do that good of a job emulating the genre tropes. The games with the best heist mechanics, that I'm aware of, are Blades in the Dark and Leverage. I'm more recently familiar with BitD and it's been a few years since I read Leverage. It's a really hard genre element to put in games well. People who want immersion will tend to want to actually go through the process of planning things beforehand, which is a nightmare. People who are okay with metacurrency and explicitly gamey elements will be cool with BitD's flashbacks. As much as I love immersion, I don't want to sit through another session filled with the players bumbling their way through planning some overly involved thing that's stupid from the off and depends on their false impressions or goes off the rails with a single failed die roll. Just gimme the stress track and flashbacks. It's a tough one. They make more sense in focused games and lots of dedicated subsystems tend to clutter up games. I tend to prefer systems that are fewer in rules where those rules are more broadly applicable. It's easier to internalize those fewer rules and easier to play rather than looking up the minutia of rules for everything. I like laser-focused games for one-shots or short campaigns, like 5-6 sessions. Anything longer than that and I want something that's more broadly useful and playable. I want variety. Pulling in dedicated subsystems is great. The only trouble is having to explain those subsystems. Unfortunately, a lot of players think they can't make decisions without having some kind of system mastery, so porting in the flashback rules into D&D, for example, causes all kinds of problems. [/QUOTE]
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