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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8935920" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I think we are mostly agreeing. I often post merely to concur and possibly elucidate <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Well, OK. I think I did get that, and there was where there was some (in my mind at least) mild difference in our positions. I think the strongest approach is to start with a universal mechanical foundation. I like to use 4e as an example since its a pretty clear one. With 4e you have your basic d20 check mechanic, and then about 4 specialized systems are layered ON TOP OF that; namely, combat, skill challenges, rituals, and diseases. All 4 of these leverage the common d20 checks, but in slightly different ways. Now, you could probably develop other similar subsystems. Frankly I think MOST of them, in 4e, would be variations on the SC format, though the disease track is certainly ripe for exploitation too (I'd consider rituals as mostly a specific use of basic checks, though it could be combined with SCs or diseases in interesting ways). </p><p></p><p>In fact, I have done all this in my own system, HoML. There are combats and challenges, which utilize the check mechanism (though there are no 'free checks' in HoML outside of those). I reworked the disease track into a generalized rule for Afflictions. They now operate as specific variations of the challenge system however, so if you get a disease, you must go through a challenge, and the severity of the disease will be related to the number of failures accrued. Rituals/Practices OTOH are still simple checks, but because checks cannot happen outside of challenge/combat, they have acquired a rather different role, mechanically, though in a conceptual sense they're not really different from what 4e offered. </p><p></p><p>My point in detailing the above is simply that it represents a process of generalization which allows for specialization. You could, for instance (in 4e or HoML) devise a subsystem for puzzle solving. It would simply be a specific set of design constraints and conventions placed on the use of the challenge mechanics. There is no need for radically different rules here. Likewise a whole slew of things can be folded under the aegis of afflictions, including diseases, curses, wounds, and poisons. No doubt someone could devise other sorts of afflictions as well! Since they are now formally challenges, any specific challenge-related mechanical infrastructure can also be leveraged by afflictions. </p><p></p><p>IMHO this is, generally, the most powerful type of design. I'm certainly not opposed to some stuff falling outside of this. So, for instance, there are rules about recovery, about companions, about shape shifting, and a few other things which are not really going to fall within the specific realms of challenge or combat because they don't involve checks, per se. Companions for instance is a set of rules that is simply all about action economy in combat/challenge situations, but in essence stands alone on top of the core action rules.</p><p></p><p>As I say, I'm not sure its actually a case where you necessarily need to think of it as two opposed and mutually exclusive options.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8935920, member: 82106"] I think we are mostly agreeing. I often post merely to concur and possibly elucidate ;) Well, OK. I think I did get that, and there was where there was some (in my mind at least) mild difference in our positions. I think the strongest approach is to start with a universal mechanical foundation. I like to use 4e as an example since its a pretty clear one. With 4e you have your basic d20 check mechanic, and then about 4 specialized systems are layered ON TOP OF that; namely, combat, skill challenges, rituals, and diseases. All 4 of these leverage the common d20 checks, but in slightly different ways. Now, you could probably develop other similar subsystems. Frankly I think MOST of them, in 4e, would be variations on the SC format, though the disease track is certainly ripe for exploitation too (I'd consider rituals as mostly a specific use of basic checks, though it could be combined with SCs or diseases in interesting ways). In fact, I have done all this in my own system, HoML. There are combats and challenges, which utilize the check mechanism (though there are no 'free checks' in HoML outside of those). I reworked the disease track into a generalized rule for Afflictions. They now operate as specific variations of the challenge system however, so if you get a disease, you must go through a challenge, and the severity of the disease will be related to the number of failures accrued. Rituals/Practices OTOH are still simple checks, but because checks cannot happen outside of challenge/combat, they have acquired a rather different role, mechanically, though in a conceptual sense they're not really different from what 4e offered. My point in detailing the above is simply that it represents a process of generalization which allows for specialization. You could, for instance (in 4e or HoML) devise a subsystem for puzzle solving. It would simply be a specific set of design constraints and conventions placed on the use of the challenge mechanics. There is no need for radically different rules here. Likewise a whole slew of things can be folded under the aegis of afflictions, including diseases, curses, wounds, and poisons. No doubt someone could devise other sorts of afflictions as well! Since they are now formally challenges, any specific challenge-related mechanical infrastructure can also be leveraged by afflictions. IMHO this is, generally, the most powerful type of design. I'm certainly not opposed to some stuff falling outside of this. So, for instance, there are rules about recovery, about companions, about shape shifting, and a few other things which are not really going to fall within the specific realms of challenge or combat because they don't involve checks, per se. Companions for instance is a set of rules that is simply all about action economy in combat/challenge situations, but in essence stands alone on top of the core action rules. As I say, I'm not sure its actually a case where you necessarily need to think of it as two opposed and mutually exclusive options. [/QUOTE]
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