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Deities in D&D: Gods as Tulpas versus Gods as Progenitors
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8849814" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>For my own part, I guess I appreciate a sort of...inversion of the tulpa concept, one that still recognizes change and development?</p><p></p><p>That is, "tulpa" implies that a particular <em>manifested</em> thing gains power and significance until, eventually, some critical mass is reached and that mind-manifestation transcends the limits of those minds. It is, for lack of a better term, a thought(/network thereof) which <em>gains</em> apotheosis by accumulation (time, attention, fervor, adherents, etc.) It's loosely a "materialist immanent" theology:t gods arise purely from discrete material causes, existing only "inside" empirical experience.</p><p></p><p>I prefer deities with a more transcendental nature. That is, deities who have some form of inherent or "outside" existence/meaning, separate from pure materialism. I like it when Justice itself is, in some sense, <em>innately</em> divine. Such transcendental deities are more interesting to me because...well, to be blunt, people can <em>think up</em> anything. As a world-builder, it's much more of a statement, and induces much more texture, to have some particular thing or things be <em>inherently</em> sacred. That and, well, I have a pretty dim view of eliminative materialism and other uncompromisingly materialist philosophical stances.</p><p></p><p>This is part of why I love the 4e pantheon as much as I do. There, the gods exist and have transcendental natures, but that doesn't mean they are impossible to affect or overpower. Indeed, the primal spirits (an inherently <em>immanent</em> power!) drove out the gods in the wake of the War of Winter. Yet by slaying Tiamat, some of the books explicitly say it's possible to weaken the concepts that she represents: greed, envy, tyranny. Gold coins become no more than a medium of exchange, a tool to be used for benefit. Envy coils less around mortal hearts, transforming into appreciation or even aspiration, and jealousy softens into its own kind of appreciation or even generosity. Evil doesn't die, but it does <em>recede</em> in the wake of slaying a transcendent entity thereof.</p><p></p><p>I'm also not opposed to having the two meet somewhere in the middle. Perhaps the mantle of godhood is transcendental, but immanent beings can take it up. You see stuff like that in the Elder Scrolls games, where "Mantling" a deity is one of the forms of apotheosis.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8849814, member: 6790260"] For my own part, I guess I appreciate a sort of...inversion of the tulpa concept, one that still recognizes change and development? That is, "tulpa" implies that a particular [I]manifested[/I] thing gains power and significance until, eventually, some critical mass is reached and that mind-manifestation transcends the limits of those minds. It is, for lack of a better term, a thought(/network thereof) which [I]gains[/I] apotheosis by accumulation (time, attention, fervor, adherents, etc.) It's loosely a "materialist immanent" theology:t gods arise purely from discrete material causes, existing only "inside" empirical experience. I prefer deities with a more transcendental nature. That is, deities who have some form of inherent or "outside" existence/meaning, separate from pure materialism. I like it when Justice itself is, in some sense, [I]innately[/I] divine. Such transcendental deities are more interesting to me because...well, to be blunt, people can [I]think up[/I] anything. As a world-builder, it's much more of a statement, and induces much more texture, to have some particular thing or things be [I]inherently[/I] sacred. That and, well, I have a pretty dim view of eliminative materialism and other uncompromisingly materialist philosophical stances. This is part of why I love the 4e pantheon as much as I do. There, the gods exist and have transcendental natures, but that doesn't mean they are impossible to affect or overpower. Indeed, the primal spirits (an inherently [I]immanent[/I] power!) drove out the gods in the wake of the War of Winter. Yet by slaying Tiamat, some of the books explicitly say it's possible to weaken the concepts that she represents: greed, envy, tyranny. Gold coins become no more than a medium of exchange, a tool to be used for benefit. Envy coils less around mortal hearts, transforming into appreciation or even aspiration, and jealousy softens into its own kind of appreciation or even generosity. Evil doesn't die, but it does [I]recede[/I] in the wake of slaying a transcendent entity thereof. I'm also not opposed to having the two meet somewhere in the middle. Perhaps the mantle of godhood is transcendental, but immanent beings can take it up. You see stuff like that in the Elder Scrolls games, where "Mantling" a deity is one of the forms of apotheosis. [/QUOTE]
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