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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6299408" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>With regards to Game of Thrones, you guys aren't advancing mutually exclusive positions.</p><p></p><p>Game of Thrones, whether the book or the TV drama, probably wouldn't have nearly the popular appeal without 'boobies' and unflinching portrayals of violence. I don't know who you've been talking too, but I'm also a commentator on a major literary review site and many fans are quite open about the fact that they like the story for the titillation and vicarious violence. This admiration sometimes goes under different names - 'grittier', 'more realistic', 'more metal', 'more believable characters', ect - and sometimes is more or less consciously admitted but its certain a major portion of why many fans like the story.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, Game of Thrones probably wouldn't be popular if it didn't have a fascinating story going or otherwise if all it had was sex and/or violence. Many people still are somewhat ashamed to admit that they have a fascination with gore and sexuality, and if there wasn't some other reward they'd probably self critique their viewing more or at least be less open about sharing their fascination. Likewise, there is only so much sex and gore without context before most people are going to have that particular part of their lizard brain satiated. By offering sex and gore within a story, you are offering higher level aesthetic engagement that prevents it all from becoming tedious while at the same time still having that gripping emotional engagement sexuality and death provides. By offering up nudity and violence in characters you've allowed people to identify with, you let them care what happens and that makes the emotional context even more visceral.</p><p></p><p>For my part, I think it's pretty undeniable that the sex and the gore is a huge part of the appeal. Countless fans of the series highlight these factors as what was missing for them in fantasy authors like Tolkien and the reason they find Martin a more satisfying read. And conversely, if you don't approve of that sort of content or the way Martin handles it, Martin's flowery prose, baroque style, meandering trickle of a plot, and countless tics of repetitive writing are much more likely to be something you find irritating and inexcusable. I honestly think that sans these elements, there would not be mass market appeal. Without the boobs and the violence, I think most people would find the political maneuvering of great houses in a fantasy kingdom with a plot line heavily borrowed from the historical War of the Roses to be a snore fest. Perhaps its not as egregious of a case as 'Shades of Gray', but its certainly a major component of the appeal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6299408, member: 4937"] With regards to Game of Thrones, you guys aren't advancing mutually exclusive positions. Game of Thrones, whether the book or the TV drama, probably wouldn't have nearly the popular appeal without 'boobies' and unflinching portrayals of violence. I don't know who you've been talking too, but I'm also a commentator on a major literary review site and many fans are quite open about the fact that they like the story for the titillation and vicarious violence. This admiration sometimes goes under different names - 'grittier', 'more realistic', 'more metal', 'more believable characters', ect - and sometimes is more or less consciously admitted but its certain a major portion of why many fans like the story. On the other hand, Game of Thrones probably wouldn't be popular if it didn't have a fascinating story going or otherwise if all it had was sex and/or violence. Many people still are somewhat ashamed to admit that they have a fascination with gore and sexuality, and if there wasn't some other reward they'd probably self critique their viewing more or at least be less open about sharing their fascination. Likewise, there is only so much sex and gore without context before most people are going to have that particular part of their lizard brain satiated. By offering sex and gore within a story, you are offering higher level aesthetic engagement that prevents it all from becoming tedious while at the same time still having that gripping emotional engagement sexuality and death provides. By offering up nudity and violence in characters you've allowed people to identify with, you let them care what happens and that makes the emotional context even more visceral. For my part, I think it's pretty undeniable that the sex and the gore is a huge part of the appeal. Countless fans of the series highlight these factors as what was missing for them in fantasy authors like Tolkien and the reason they find Martin a more satisfying read. And conversely, if you don't approve of that sort of content or the way Martin handles it, Martin's flowery prose, baroque style, meandering trickle of a plot, and countless tics of repetitive writing are much more likely to be something you find irritating and inexcusable. I honestly think that sans these elements, there would not be mass market appeal. Without the boobs and the violence, I think most people would find the political maneuvering of great houses in a fantasy kingdom with a plot line heavily borrowed from the historical War of the Roses to be a snore fest. Perhaps its not as egregious of a case as 'Shades of Gray', but its certainly a major component of the appeal. [/QUOTE]
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