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Differences in powergaming in 1st/2nd and 3.0/3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 3375808" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>The differences in powergaming in 1st and 2nd edition vs 3.x is:</p><p>Characters were not built like they are now. A powerful character in 1st and 2nd might have been a multi-classed or dual-classed character. But both multi-classing and dual-classing had some pretty serious restrictions. Really, the major factor on powergaming then was magic items. And that was almost solely controlled by the DM. They were able to allow certain items in the game by giving them to the players. There were no feats and practically no skills (I suppose you could call the 2nd edition proficiency system a skill system). So the powers outside of spellcasters were based completely off of the items that they had access too. And again their flow was based on the DM. The DM was encouraged (had) to handwave in these games because the game had inherent flaws. Everything in first and second edition seemed to be primarily written fundamentally with flavor before mechanics. I mean look at all the settings and things created then. It was wonderful. If the mechanics didnt work (which they often had problems), it was expected that the DM would handwave, shoe horn, house rule, disallow, or simply alter it. I could give a million examples.</p><p></p><p>3.x is completely different. The players have much more control of their abilities, skills, feats, and the their class and prestige class progression they want and even magic items purchased with the wealth rules. The power of the game is tilted too much in the players court. There is an inherent level of planning that has to go into characters to meet PrC, feat, and other requirements. Additionally, everything is spelled out in 3.x. And I mean everything. So, it gives a lot of firepower to the rules lawyer at the table. Handwaving only works when everyone at the table has no idea what to do or where to look. Handwaving in my group is very minimalist because we/(me) are very rules proficient. How far can I jump to the foot, page x; How much damage does a tarrask cause when it falls on you, page x (check this one, by the way, its funny how many 1,000s of dice of damage this causes). Everything is spelled out for mechanics sake and not for flavor.</p><p></p><p>Being someone who has played every edition extensively I do want for the old days of making a 10th level fighter in 10 minutes and then asking the DM, what magic items I can have and be done with it. I am road weary designing characters and looking at the myriad of options available. And what makes that 10th level fighter different from every other 10th level fighter? His stats, his magic items and how I roleplay him. And imo that last one is the key. The stats are random, the gm controls the magic items and I as a player control how I role play. Simple- elegant and it offers the DM the luxury of controlling the campaign flow with out gearing for the effects of powergaming.</p><p></p><p>3.x did do a lot of wonderful things to the game it brought levels of customization that really did improve the game on several if not most levels. But it simply has too many moving parts, the illusion that it is attempting balance and having everything completely spelled out. The inherent flaws of 1st and 2nd edition were in some ways desirable to this. If D&D had a less spelled out less crunchy system that allowed some handwaving and DM fiat it would be much better game imo. As it is now powergaming, which did exist in 1st and 2nd, but is way out of proportional control. People who thought powergaming was a problem in 1st and 2nd... well dont look now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 3375808, member: 14506"] The differences in powergaming in 1st and 2nd edition vs 3.x is: Characters were not built like they are now. A powerful character in 1st and 2nd might have been a multi-classed or dual-classed character. But both multi-classing and dual-classing had some pretty serious restrictions. Really, the major factor on powergaming then was magic items. And that was almost solely controlled by the DM. They were able to allow certain items in the game by giving them to the players. There were no feats and practically no skills (I suppose you could call the 2nd edition proficiency system a skill system). So the powers outside of spellcasters were based completely off of the items that they had access too. And again their flow was based on the DM. The DM was encouraged (had) to handwave in these games because the game had inherent flaws. Everything in first and second edition seemed to be primarily written fundamentally with flavor before mechanics. I mean look at all the settings and things created then. It was wonderful. If the mechanics didnt work (which they often had problems), it was expected that the DM would handwave, shoe horn, house rule, disallow, or simply alter it. I could give a million examples. 3.x is completely different. The players have much more control of their abilities, skills, feats, and the their class and prestige class progression they want and even magic items purchased with the wealth rules. The power of the game is tilted too much in the players court. There is an inherent level of planning that has to go into characters to meet PrC, feat, and other requirements. Additionally, everything is spelled out in 3.x. And I mean everything. So, it gives a lot of firepower to the rules lawyer at the table. Handwaving only works when everyone at the table has no idea what to do or where to look. Handwaving in my group is very minimalist because we/(me) are very rules proficient. How far can I jump to the foot, page x; How much damage does a tarrask cause when it falls on you, page x (check this one, by the way, its funny how many 1,000s of dice of damage this causes). Everything is spelled out for mechanics sake and not for flavor. Being someone who has played every edition extensively I do want for the old days of making a 10th level fighter in 10 minutes and then asking the DM, what magic items I can have and be done with it. I am road weary designing characters and looking at the myriad of options available. And what makes that 10th level fighter different from every other 10th level fighter? His stats, his magic items and how I roleplay him. And imo that last one is the key. The stats are random, the gm controls the magic items and I as a player control how I role play. Simple- elegant and it offers the DM the luxury of controlling the campaign flow with out gearing for the effects of powergaming. 3.x did do a lot of wonderful things to the game it brought levels of customization that really did improve the game on several if not most levels. But it simply has too many moving parts, the illusion that it is attempting balance and having everything completely spelled out. The inherent flaws of 1st and 2nd edition were in some ways desirable to this. If D&D had a less spelled out less crunchy system that allowed some handwaving and DM fiat it would be much better game imo. As it is now powergaming, which did exist in 1st and 2nd, but is way out of proportional control. People who thought powergaming was a problem in 1st and 2nd... well dont look now. [/QUOTE]
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