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Discussing 4e Subsystems: Retraining
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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4521138" data-attributes="member: 63272"><p>This is very good perspective and an angle that hasn't been brought up in this thread. The trained skill marker only represents +5. Even by 2nd level that +5 starts playing a less significant role to the other midifiers, by level 4, with a +1 in two stats and +2 from lvl, the +5 won't make up half of some trained skills that mesh with primary abilities. A fighter's str based trained skill would likely sit at 4 (str) +2 (lvl) +5 (trained). From late heroic through paragon levels (where I imagine most retraining will take place), that +5 isn't as big a deal. </p><p></p><p>Carl the Climber at 9th level would have an athletics check somewhere around (+5 str, +4 lvl, +5 trained) +14. That represents a guy who is a pretty amazing climber, who can succeed at level dependent climb DCs in the thick of battle. But why is Carl considering retraining at 10th level? It's doubtful that if Carl has spent many a combat clinging precariously to cliff walls while fighting flying beasts that he is going to give up his advantage. Retraining is for things we don't find very useful, that we once thought we would. If Carl is looking to stop being as climby, it is likely because being climby has not been nearly as useful for him as he thought (and his DM should be smacked). So, he hasn't used it much. The in game reasoning for level based benefits has always been the same - it's assumed that PCs train constantly and levels represent that 'moment' where some of it comes together and improvement can be quantified. Retraining is the same. </p><p></p><p>Carl was once a great climber, but circumstances found him in cities and tight corridors a lot more than the wall scaling habits of his youth. He has learned a lot about urban life though, how to find things out, how to get the lay of a city quickly... Carl has retrained athletics to streetwise. He has not forgotten how to climb. He can still easily scale most walls or cliffs with his +9. He's just lost some edge (keeping his training current) because he is focused in more relevant areas to his current experiences and would find level dependent DCs are more of a challenge for him than they once were. </p><p></p><p>It's not just that it's easy to justify retraining, it's that it actually fits well into D&Ds system of abstracting character growth through the leveling mechanic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4521138, member: 63272"] This is very good perspective and an angle that hasn't been brought up in this thread. The trained skill marker only represents +5. Even by 2nd level that +5 starts playing a less significant role to the other midifiers, by level 4, with a +1 in two stats and +2 from lvl, the +5 won't make up half of some trained skills that mesh with primary abilities. A fighter's str based trained skill would likely sit at 4 (str) +2 (lvl) +5 (trained). From late heroic through paragon levels (where I imagine most retraining will take place), that +5 isn't as big a deal. Carl the Climber at 9th level would have an athletics check somewhere around (+5 str, +4 lvl, +5 trained) +14. That represents a guy who is a pretty amazing climber, who can succeed at level dependent climb DCs in the thick of battle. But why is Carl considering retraining at 10th level? It's doubtful that if Carl has spent many a combat clinging precariously to cliff walls while fighting flying beasts that he is going to give up his advantage. Retraining is for things we don't find very useful, that we once thought we would. If Carl is looking to stop being as climby, it is likely because being climby has not been nearly as useful for him as he thought (and his DM should be smacked). So, he hasn't used it much. The in game reasoning for level based benefits has always been the same - it's assumed that PCs train constantly and levels represent that 'moment' where some of it comes together and improvement can be quantified. Retraining is the same. Carl was once a great climber, but circumstances found him in cities and tight corridors a lot more than the wall scaling habits of his youth. He has learned a lot about urban life though, how to find things out, how to get the lay of a city quickly... Carl has retrained athletics to streetwise. He has not forgotten how to climb. He can still easily scale most walls or cliffs with his +9. He's just lost some edge (keeping his training current) because he is focused in more relevant areas to his current experiences and would find level dependent DCs are more of a challenge for him than they once were. It's not just that it's easy to justify retraining, it's that it actually fits well into D&Ds system of abstracting character growth through the leveling mechanic. [/QUOTE]
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