(Discussion) Etiquette at the Red Dragon Inn...

[Jack Haggerty]

From the Red Dragon Inn II thread...

One guy, young and dressed in grey modest clothes talks to many of you in turn, in low voice: "Would you like a map? True treasure maps from the forest of Ar. Taken from an orc warband!"

"Sure thing, pal," Jack says as he pulls a strip of dried meat from his pack, waving it before the solicitor's face. "I'll tell you what... I'll trade you that map for the preserved tongue of holy St. Brentford. Guaranteed to bring you the all the blessings of the saint, and to carry your prayers directly to the gods themselves as if voiced from his very own blessed mouth."

The man (better said the boy) takes the meat -or attempts to- "I´ll take the tongue, sir." says "Since they say it brings, hmmm, peace of spirit to the hungry."

Jack tosses him the bit of meat with a parting benediction, "Well then, may St. Brentford grant you the strength to lighten your earthly burdens and the endurance travel the road for which you were destined."

He leaves the map on the table and dissapears as quick as his legs allow him.

Once you examine the map, you realice in a single glance that you could barely find a town with it, let alone a treasure: it´s so badly painted and has several enormous red crosses on it.

"What a piece of crap" says the barman glancing over your shoulder. "But rumours float about that forest, it´s not the first time I hear about it. Maybe a group of unemployed adventurers could investigate it while they wait for a better opportunity."

[Yes, it´s an adventure waiting for players! from two to five, frequently posting]

Jack shrugs, folding the map back up and stowing safely amongst his gear, "If nothing else," he remarks to no one in particular, "I can alway use it for kindling, or privy paper." He shrugs his back on, and retrieves his now mostly dry cloak from the hook near the fire and makes his way outside to the statue of the Red Dragon...

OOC: jack, since Someone made it clear they were trying to start an adventure, taking the plot hook along (in a needlessly insulting way) is a little rude not just to him/her, but others who might have been interested in the adventure.

OOC: OOC: Not as much as you might think... First, "maps" certainly implies that the schill has more than one of them (it'd be a poor scam, if he only tried selling a single map). Second, the bartender said the map itself was useless (which was also painfully obvious just looking at it). And anyone standing nearby (in the entire barroom) to overhear would now know that the Forest of Ar is a good place to look for loot. Someone didn't have to hand me that map, seeing as I made it quite clear that I was walking out the door into another adventure. And as far as needlessly insulting rude little halflings are concerned... as others have said previously about their characters... that's just the way Jack is sometimes. Look at it from another point of view, and he knowingly and charitably gave that poor boy a free meal. Besides, who says we won't stop by the Forest of Ar on the way home. And he hasn't left yet, so if anyone wants to make Jack an offer for the map, remember... He traded a bona fide holy relic for it. The Insult (and reference from Kahuna) was not to the Halfling, but to the DM who was trying to start an adventure. There are a few simple ettiquette rules that we must all follow in the Red Dragon, one of which is that you are either involved with an adventure or you aren't. If you aren't, then don't interfere with one when a Dm is trying to start one. Oh, the wonders of Sleight of Hand. Oh, and I picked your pocket in a legit manner, Jack, just so you know. Wonder what Rogues can do these days... IC: As the smug man leaves the Inn, he fails to notice the sleightly too long moment that the passing merchant bumped against him for. As Jack exited, the merchant smiled and set the map down upon the table that it had been placed upon a few moments ago. 'Pity that, seems that fellow has a full plate already, perhaps a few of you lot?' The merchant orders a beer, drinks it quickly and then departs again, off into the night. The Treasure Map to the Forest of Ar lies once more upon the table, waiting for any who wish to seek what it leads to.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Ok... Let's clear this up, eh?

If you want etiquette rules for the Red Dragon Inn, then please post them for everyone to see. Otherwise it'll be left up to each us to play our characters as we see fit.

Every other adventure presented thus far in the Red Dragon Inn has specified a specific location and time for those characters who are interested in participating. This one did not. If you read my previous OOC post, you'll notice there are several methods for Somebody to reintroduce his adventure, or for other characters to show their interest to Jack (who, by the miracle of internet messageboards, can still be in the midst of leaving the Inn while at the same time scouting out a wizard's mansion). If another character simply asks him about the map, it easy enough for Jack to retroactively pass the scrap of paper along.

Otherwise, he walks out the door with it, because due to his very nature, he doesn't tend to throw away things that might come in useful later.

It bothers me immensely that a Judge should take such a sudden and unilateral action with my character without even warning me first. No one's complained about it (in public or to me privately) for the last two weeks... A private email from anyone involved would have worked wonders had they been that bothered.

I'm just not certain I see the problem with situation in the first place... The adventure hook is potentially still there (If one shmoe in the Inn bit and bought the map, maybe another one will, so why not go back and try to sell another?), assuming Somebody is paying attention and still interested in running the adventure. Not to mention that I'm seriously considering stopping by the Forest of Ar after my current adventure, whether or not there is a formal adventure waiting for me there.

 

[Uriel]

Before I say anything about Jack's querries/issues, I would like to state something here, since it is the Etiquette Thread (Thanks Jack Haggerty, btw).

When folks want to do something that they want the rest of the people gaming with them to not know about, such as pocketing gems that they find, or giving a secret sign to another Rogue etc... it is good to go about it with a bit of secrecy.

I know tha CS is fond of blacked-out taglines, which is fine 9although I am sure that some folks are tempted to peek.

I prefer emails, especially if it is pocketing treasure etc... Mine is bluehead69@yahoo.com

Now, as frustrating as it sounds when folks learn that others are taking a bit of extra grift, it happens in all RPGs, and I (as a DM) would rather have it in secret, roll the oppossed dice rolls etc.. and then email results to the sneaky person, and to the target/those noticing if indeed the sneaky git is caught.

So, in short (a bit late for that now), please make sure of what system your Dm prefers. We don't want to see 'I pocket the potion...but nobody sees, because they are all in the next room.'
We are all (hopefully) going to be playing for a long time on here togther and this is sure to come up at some point, better to get it sorted out earlier than later.

Ok, on to Jack Haggerty's Issue.
Yes, Jack I see your point. 'Someone' should have posted by now in response to your post with a complaint if that was the case, or a Judge should have addressed it earlier. Perhaps Someone was put off by the whole thing and decided not to run their game. Perhaps Someone (it is odd using 'Someone' as a person's name...) became busy/changed their mind about running their game/whatever.

Alarm at the Judge 'unilaterally' affecting your character isn't really warrented, even though that's exactly what they do. They (we) are the Judges, and their job is to try and keep things running smoothly, which means (as to the Red Dragon) characters and Dms in-groups formed-characters and Dm out on adventures. Perhas the Judge hadn't looked at the dates on the posts as closely as they should, seeing that nobody had responded in a few days.

No matter, the Judge could have just had someone (not the person...er) else have a Map 'Damn it, this thing is worthless!' and throw it down on a table as they stalked out. Come to think of it, that would have been more creative, and it wouldn't have ruffled your feathers (I have ruffle-able feathers as well, so I understand your position).

So, as a Judge, I shall say I hope that this is resolved and we can all benefit from it, players should not join one game and 'dip' into another. I understand Jack Haggerty's (the PC)motives,he might want to check out the Forest of Ar later. However, the DM wanted to start their game as of their post, not in the 3 months that Jack's current game might take on the PbP boards.
Likewise, Judges should not jump on their Guns and blast away in their posts,as did that Judge, perhaps a bit prematurely. I am sure that nobody meant to offend anyone else in the exchange.

Lastly, as the Judge that replied to your actions, I would like to give a personnal 'I'm sorry' if I offended you. That being said, I think I'm off to bed after a very long night of work.

-Uriel

 

[Creamsteak]

Uriel, if your doing that, I need you to catalog those that information and post it 'after the fact' at the end of the thread.

 

[Mithreander]

My only question: is Jack Haggerty a PC? I was under the impression that he was an NPC. To have an NPC stteal a plot device, and then say that the NPC will look into it after the current adventure that they are running, would disrupt the gaming world. The NPC is higher level then waht the adventure is made for, will take liberties designed for PC's and basically become a PC. It seems to me that Jack is trying to play a higher level PC without raising him through regular channels, though that could be a miss conception on my part.

Eitherway, I think it would be safe to generate rules of conduct for NPC's, such as the only ones to be played ina given adventure are those run by the DM (standard), or those invited to participate to add flavor (The City of Fallon and another city ran by another DM ally together for some reason and meet to discuss things with the PCs involved, etc...). An NPC from one DM's domain, should not disrupt the domain of another DM or potential DM.

In this case, that's exactly what this looks like, and Jack (the player) looks to play Jack (the NPC) in the adventure of Someone (the person), which should not be allowed.

THis is all. of course, just my humble opinion.

Oh, and I could be wrong about Jack Haggerty being an NPC, in which case I was COMPLETELY wrong!

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Oh, and I could be wrong about Jack Haggerty being an NPC, in which case I was COMPLETELY wrong!

Heh... You're completely wrong.

Originally, had just meant the whole conversation with the map seller to be an interesting bit of roleplaying to highlight Jack's personality before we stepped out the door on our adventure. I truly never expected for the NPC to actually sell the map for the piece of meat, and the whole thing ended up going in an unforseen direction (probably for everyone involved).

Now, I don't really have a problem with leaving the map behind. If the map is really that important to the adventure, you're all right, it's not very fair to walk out the door with it. However, based on the NPC reactions and the description of the map, it didn't seem, at the time, that map in any way key to solving or even beginning the adventure.

Somebody never said, "Please the map behind, I need it for whoever wants to play inthe adventure."

Kahuna Burger (or anyone else, for that matter) never said, "Please leave the map behind, I'd like my character to participate in this adventure."

The Uriel (as the Judge) never said, "Kahuna Burger is right, that's not fair, please leave the map behind."

That, in essense, is what I have a problem with. The rudeness my character displayed (though I still won't apologize for that, all of our characters have their quirks, and everyone should know the difference between a 'character' and a 'player' by now) ended up being pertuated by more percieved rudeness, and it could have gotten out of hand with terribly hurt feelings very quickly. And that's not what this game is about, is it.

I fully admit, in retrospect, my response to KB was pissier that I meant it to be. Sometimes it's awfully difficult emotions and mood across the internet. If it makes a difference, I'm sorry about that, KB and Uriel.

Uriel, I'm not offended at all. Just a little discouraged and disappointed... In myself more than anyone.

One way or the other, let's just make certain it doesn't happen again, eh? It's not fun.

 

[Mithreander]

Oh, your the halfling! The one with the loud mouth! Well then I say it's alright! Characters are ment to make things interesting for DMs. As Jack had been saying, I have to agree. It was up to Someone (the person) to do something about it if it was trully a problem. With Jack as a PC... he was in full right to buy the map, and potentially use it latter, or not, as was his choice as a PC.

 

[Uriel]

CS: SO far, there haven't been any secret messages...oh crap. I just admitted that everybody inmy two LEW games has been above-board the whole time. Now the others will be really paranoid...
Of course I'll compile them (the emails) when/if they do occur.


jack, I wasn't offended, was just hoping that you weren't from my reaction.

On to other issues.

Perhaps it would be a good thing for the Judge that is watching after a particular game to have their name in the Tag/Title.

'Return to Falcon Reach (Creamsteak Judging)

That way, players would have a specific person to address things to as far as in game issues, as well as the DMs likewise having someone to bouce things off of.


Lastly, whoever took my +5 Vorpal Kukri, please leave it with Tiggle at the bar, no questions asked. Sooner than later, as the Death Sladd that I hired to get it back is getting a bit smelly and I'd just as soon send him back to Limbo or Pandemonium or Cleveland (or wherever those things come from).

-Uriel

 

[Someone]

Just to state my opinion, I see no harm or insult on the way things went. The adventure is still there, and I´ll run it when I have enough players. The forest, after all, is not going anywhere.

The thread is still there for anyone to read it; his character can learn about the map and the forest of Ar as rumours, or asking the barman. I think it´s cool for an adventurer to risk something, and seek adventure where he can, instead of sitting in a tavern and wait for someone to show and cry "I´ll give several pounds of gold to whoever kills person X!" Unfortunately, there´s now too many adventures, so I suggest, at least, to change the name of the thread "DM´s needed".

 

[Macbeth]

Perhaps it would be a good thing for the Judge that is watching after a particular game to have their name in the Tag/Title.

'Return to Falcon Reach (Creamsteak Judging)

That way, players would have a specific person to address things to as far as in game issues, as well as the DMs likewise having someone to bouce things off of.

This seems like an extremely good idea, I like that we help give the players a way to contact the judge who knows the most about their game. It would also help keep things organized, we will know that every game has a judge watching it. It could help avoid confusion such as the confusion around the LEW Vignette, which Uriel both ran and judged (not that thats a problem, its just that the other judges didn't knwo what was goin on)