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Disney Star Wars Is It Actually That Bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 8714038" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>I tend to think describing Rey as "Luke but without any faults" is pretty damn uncharitable too. I get that there's a line between a fictional character and living human person, but when 95% of this "debate" boils down to vitriol based in real-world biases and bigotry, I'm more inclined to see that line as blurrier than it might otherwise be.</p><p></p><p>There is no such things as "having elements" of a Mary Sue. There's not a half-Sue. It's kind of an all-or-nothing designation. If she is perfect and flawless and always succeeds, she is a Mary Sue. If she has flaws, and faults, and experiences failure, she is not. And she does, objectively, have flaws, and faults, and experiences failure. She's not a Mary Sue. Not at all.</p><p></p><p>Now see, Luke's major fault, as you describe is intrinsic to the setting. He almost falls to dark side. That's interesting, but not exactly relatable. Sure, there's very human passions underneath that near-fall, but hey, turns out Luke is a pretty good character. </p><p></p><p>On the other hand, Rey is extremely insecure about her heritage. She's myopic, and so self-absorbed that she consistently ignores her friends and leaves them behind. These are super relatable, human flaws, and they drive a lot of her actions. I don't know how much more "inherent to her character" you need a flaw to get. She tries to get Luke to help out The Resistance, or at the very least train her. She fails. She tries to find some great truth in the cave. She fails. (This failure is pretty interesting because it <em>should </em>have been a great revelation for her, but she completely missed the point, because she wasn't prepared to be open-minded enough to see <em>herself </em>as the answer to all her insecurities). She tries to turn Kylo back towards the light. She fails. To say nothing of the clown show that is Episode IX's plot progression.</p><p></p><p>So when you blithely drop that Rey is "Luke without any faults", you're communicating, at best, that you've either completely missed or chosen to not count the variety of faults she demonstrates throughout the film. At worst, you're echoing the worst of the misogyny that has been levied against the films and her character in general. Now, I have zero doubts that that is how you really feel, but you need to be prepared to back up a statement that is otherwise inherently linked with online bigotry and hatred, and given the text we have available I have no idea how you possible could do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 8714038, member: 57112"] I tend to think describing Rey as "Luke but without any faults" is pretty damn uncharitable too. I get that there's a line between a fictional character and living human person, but when 95% of this "debate" boils down to vitriol based in real-world biases and bigotry, I'm more inclined to see that line as blurrier than it might otherwise be. There is no such things as "having elements" of a Mary Sue. There's not a half-Sue. It's kind of an all-or-nothing designation. If she is perfect and flawless and always succeeds, she is a Mary Sue. If she has flaws, and faults, and experiences failure, she is not. And she does, objectively, have flaws, and faults, and experiences failure. She's not a Mary Sue. Not at all. Now see, Luke's major fault, as you describe is intrinsic to the setting. He almost falls to dark side. That's interesting, but not exactly relatable. Sure, there's very human passions underneath that near-fall, but hey, turns out Luke is a pretty good character. On the other hand, Rey is extremely insecure about her heritage. She's myopic, and so self-absorbed that she consistently ignores her friends and leaves them behind. These are super relatable, human flaws, and they drive a lot of her actions. I don't know how much more "inherent to her character" you need a flaw to get. She tries to get Luke to help out The Resistance, or at the very least train her. She fails. She tries to find some great truth in the cave. She fails. (This failure is pretty interesting because it [I]should [/I]have been a great revelation for her, but she completely missed the point, because she wasn't prepared to be open-minded enough to see [I]herself [/I]as the answer to all her insecurities). She tries to turn Kylo back towards the light. She fails. To say nothing of the clown show that is Episode IX's plot progression. So when you blithely drop that Rey is "Luke without any faults", you're communicating, at best, that you've either completely missed or chosen to not count the variety of faults she demonstrates throughout the film. At worst, you're echoing the worst of the misogyny that has been levied against the films and her character in general. Now, I have zero doubts that that is how you really feel, but you need to be prepared to back up a statement that is otherwise inherently linked with online bigotry and hatred, and given the text we have available I have no idea how you possible could do that. [/QUOTE]
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