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DMG - breaking bounded accuracy already?
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<blockquote data-quote="Selkirk" data-source="post: 6495440" data-attributes="member: 6775377"><p>this is a valid point. mud and grime games can be fun. the problem is the ap's for 5e are high fantasy. so we have the rub of peasant farmers with swords in a high fantasy setting. if the ap's were mud and grime then you would have a functioning game. but, most people wouldn't want to play it <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />. people play d&d to fight fantastical creatures not to struggle with orcs at high levels. </p><p></p><p>and the problem is that characters (much like the mobs) do very well against single high cr creatures...but struggle mightily against an even level cr creature with a mob. the math breaks down at every level...numbers not skill win the day. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>the problem with mobs is not inherently that they exist...the problem is they are obvious timesinks/resource drains in the worst mmo ways. they don't present a challenge from a play perspective and offer nothing in the way of satisfaction when you win or lose. and the numbers don't have to be this high. try 20 ranged low level creatures with initiative vs a 10th level party in need of a short rest (maybe a random encounter). the numbers start swinging heavily towards the creatures if they are hitting and become real groaners if the party is missing. </p><p></p><p>and what makes these mobs interesting? nothing. from an immersion pov low level mobs should exist (because mechanically you can't just ignore them)..but the impact they can have heavily skews their importance. and d&d is a ttrpg not an mmo-grinding thru mobs is super lame and dull. but the math of the game makes the mob almost a necessity for a dm. again, single high cr creatures get mowed down (numbers win the day..the party as mini mob) so the dm needs mobs...</p><p></p><p>but what if high cr creatures could actually hold their own and didn't need mobs. and the players were powerful and weren't fighting mobs but instead were taking on powerful creatures in interesting fights...sort of sounds like d&d to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Selkirk, post: 6495440, member: 6775377"] this is a valid point. mud and grime games can be fun. the problem is the ap's for 5e are high fantasy. so we have the rub of peasant farmers with swords in a high fantasy setting. if the ap's were mud and grime then you would have a functioning game. but, most people wouldn't want to play it :D. people play d&d to fight fantastical creatures not to struggle with orcs at high levels. and the problem is that characters (much like the mobs) do very well against single high cr creatures...but struggle mightily against an even level cr creature with a mob. the math breaks down at every level...numbers not skill win the day. the problem with mobs is not inherently that they exist...the problem is they are obvious timesinks/resource drains in the worst mmo ways. they don't present a challenge from a play perspective and offer nothing in the way of satisfaction when you win or lose. and the numbers don't have to be this high. try 20 ranged low level creatures with initiative vs a 10th level party in need of a short rest (maybe a random encounter). the numbers start swinging heavily towards the creatures if they are hitting and become real groaners if the party is missing. and what makes these mobs interesting? nothing. from an immersion pov low level mobs should exist (because mechanically you can't just ignore them)..but the impact they can have heavily skews their importance. and d&d is a ttrpg not an mmo-grinding thru mobs is super lame and dull. but the math of the game makes the mob almost a necessity for a dm. again, single high cr creatures get mowed down (numbers win the day..the party as mini mob) so the dm needs mobs... but what if high cr creatures could actually hold their own and didn't need mobs. and the players were powerful and weren't fighting mobs but instead were taking on powerful creatures in interesting fights...sort of sounds like d&d to me. [/QUOTE]
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