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DMG's definition of "Deadly" is much less deadly than mine: Data Aggregation?
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6704842" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>I'm okay with the idea of gaining extra XP through handicapping yourself, fighting blindfolded/left-handed/whatever. (In fact, I do something similar when I let my players skip over multiple similar encounters, e.g. hunting down 35 ropers on their island, if they can beat one tough encounter, e.g. 3 ropers making every roll at disadvantage while PCs make every roll at disadvanage. Although the logic I use there is not about handicapping but rather "this was the hardest fight.")</p><p></p><p>I just don't think that measuring outcomes is a good way to measure how much PCs were handicapped/challenged. I disagree very much, for instance, that you have to be very smart to play dumb enough to take "heavy" damage against light opposition which is nevertheless not heavy enough to actually endanger you. If I'm fighting eight goblins, I charge through them, taking opportunity attacks, until I'm down to about 50% health and then I smack a goblin and charge back behind friendly while a new PC takes my place. Due to the way HP work in 5E, as long as somebody saves a few Healing Words (a minor resource), the risk is minimal. Once everyone is moderately damaged, we kill half the goblins and do it again to get down to 25% health or so. Now the fight counts as Deadly since almost everybody took extremely heavy damage in the process and used up a lot of resources (maybe the wizard blows his spells on inefficient spells like Chromatic Orb V), so we get a ton of XP. Meanwhile the PCs are secretly hoarding whatever resources you haven't managed to account for when you designed the difficulty guidelines, which could be Lucky rolls or Shield spells or Rages or something else to make that last 25% of HP far more robust than the first 75% was.</p><p></p><p>What ends up happening looks far less like "learn to fight while blindfolded" than "learn to fight like the keystone cops." And like Quickleaf's players, I would absolutely hate that system--it's the worst kind of treadmill from my perspective in that it penalizes skill with pathological incentives. I can enjoy non-combat D&D, but that system would motivate me to avoid all XP progression and combat altogether, as much as possible, as a reaction. I'd wind up playing D&D like GURPS (i.e. focused primarily on skills and social interactions), in which case there's really not much point in it being D&D at all vs. freeform roleplaying. It doesn't sound completely unpleasant but it does sound pathologically counterproductive--I'd have to be really good friends with the DM and other players to enjoy spending time on such a relative waste of time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Think of the anger when they die to Orcus at level three because they didn't play more stupidly against the hook horrors.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6704842, member: 6787650"] I'm okay with the idea of gaining extra XP through handicapping yourself, fighting blindfolded/left-handed/whatever. (In fact, I do something similar when I let my players skip over multiple similar encounters, e.g. hunting down 35 ropers on their island, if they can beat one tough encounter, e.g. 3 ropers making every roll at disadvantage while PCs make every roll at disadvanage. Although the logic I use there is not about handicapping but rather "this was the hardest fight.") I just don't think that measuring outcomes is a good way to measure how much PCs were handicapped/challenged. I disagree very much, for instance, that you have to be very smart to play dumb enough to take "heavy" damage against light opposition which is nevertheless not heavy enough to actually endanger you. If I'm fighting eight goblins, I charge through them, taking opportunity attacks, until I'm down to about 50% health and then I smack a goblin and charge back behind friendly while a new PC takes my place. Due to the way HP work in 5E, as long as somebody saves a few Healing Words (a minor resource), the risk is minimal. Once everyone is moderately damaged, we kill half the goblins and do it again to get down to 25% health or so. Now the fight counts as Deadly since almost everybody took extremely heavy damage in the process and used up a lot of resources (maybe the wizard blows his spells on inefficient spells like Chromatic Orb V), so we get a ton of XP. Meanwhile the PCs are secretly hoarding whatever resources you haven't managed to account for when you designed the difficulty guidelines, which could be Lucky rolls or Shield spells or Rages or something else to make that last 25% of HP far more robust than the first 75% was. What ends up happening looks far less like "learn to fight while blindfolded" than "learn to fight like the keystone cops." And like Quickleaf's players, I would absolutely hate that system--it's the worst kind of treadmill from my perspective in that it penalizes skill with pathological incentives. I can enjoy non-combat D&D, but that system would motivate me to avoid all XP progression and combat altogether, as much as possible, as a reaction. I'd wind up playing D&D like GURPS (i.e. focused primarily on skills and social interactions), in which case there's really not much point in it being D&D at all vs. freeform roleplaying. It doesn't sound completely unpleasant but it does sound pathologically counterproductive--I'd have to be really good friends with the DM and other players to enjoy spending time on such a relative waste of time. Think of the anger when they die to Orcus at level three because they didn't play more stupidly against the hook horrors. [/QUOTE]
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DMG's definition of "Deadly" is much less deadly than mine: Data Aggregation?
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