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Do Demon Lords/Dukes of Hell grant spells to worshippers as gods do?
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<blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 5053427" data-attributes="member: 11697"><p>Yes, worshippers of archfiends have received divine spells. The question is just who is providing the divine magic to their clerics though. In some editions is was the fiend itself granting the power (and in some editions various archfiends have also been overtly both gods and archfiends, such as Orcus, Demogorgon, etc). In late 3e the Fiendish Codex series had a really cool compromise position that had the non divine 3e archfiends still granting spells as essentially conduits to the inherent power of the Abyss, etc.</p><p></p><p>And mechanics aside, the flavor text and in-game history has very often muddied the question of who exactly is more powerful (and when and where) regarding the gods versus archfiends question. Grazzt has never been a deity, in fact he openly avoided gaining divine power (viewing it as too much as a potential weakness and hating the obligations that would come with the power), and some have suggested that his son Iuz as a deity was more powerful. Yet plenty of examples exist through the body of lore to suggest that gods don't muck with the fiends in their home planes for very good historical reasons, and the fiends likewise don't easily throw their weight around against gods on the prime material where the gods would seem to have the advantage.</p><p></p><p>One of the more amusing instances was a situation where the demon(obyrith) lord Pale Night is inside of Lolth's divine domain and just openly ignores the restrictions on teleportation that Lolth as a god, inside of her own divine domain, laid down. They just didn't have any effect on her. None at all. That's not supposed to happen, but it did.</p><p></p><p>And fwiw, Orcus began as a mortal, died, became an archfiend, gained godhood, died, rose as Tenebrous, died again, rose back to archfiend status. Complex. And Lolth on the other hand started as a goddess, was stripped of most of her divinity, exiled into the Abyss, and gradually regained her full divine power. But outside of some titles and semantics, she was never actually an archfiend (something that sort of requires you to be an actual fiend).</p><p></p><p>I have absolutely no idea off the top of my head what the 4e planar material retcons/just doesn't address/handles differently from the above. But it's your campaign so pick and choose what works best for you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shemeska, post: 5053427, member: 11697"] Yes, worshippers of archfiends have received divine spells. The question is just who is providing the divine magic to their clerics though. In some editions is was the fiend itself granting the power (and in some editions various archfiends have also been overtly both gods and archfiends, such as Orcus, Demogorgon, etc). In late 3e the Fiendish Codex series had a really cool compromise position that had the non divine 3e archfiends still granting spells as essentially conduits to the inherent power of the Abyss, etc. And mechanics aside, the flavor text and in-game history has very often muddied the question of who exactly is more powerful (and when and where) regarding the gods versus archfiends question. Grazzt has never been a deity, in fact he openly avoided gaining divine power (viewing it as too much as a potential weakness and hating the obligations that would come with the power), and some have suggested that his son Iuz as a deity was more powerful. Yet plenty of examples exist through the body of lore to suggest that gods don't muck with the fiends in their home planes for very good historical reasons, and the fiends likewise don't easily throw their weight around against gods on the prime material where the gods would seem to have the advantage. One of the more amusing instances was a situation where the demon(obyrith) lord Pale Night is inside of Lolth's divine domain and just openly ignores the restrictions on teleportation that Lolth as a god, inside of her own divine domain, laid down. They just didn't have any effect on her. None at all. That's not supposed to happen, but it did. And fwiw, Orcus began as a mortal, died, became an archfiend, gained godhood, died, rose as Tenebrous, died again, rose back to archfiend status. Complex. And Lolth on the other hand started as a goddess, was stripped of most of her divinity, exiled into the Abyss, and gradually regained her full divine power. But outside of some titles and semantics, she was never actually an archfiend (something that sort of requires you to be an actual fiend). I have absolutely no idea off the top of my head what the 4e planar material retcons/just doesn't address/handles differently from the above. But it's your campaign so pick and choose what works best for you. [/QUOTE]
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