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<blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2445937" data-attributes="member: 5777"><p>If it was designed to be entered at 6th and the selection of feats was the limiting factor then at least one of those feats must require some factor for higher levels. Otherwise the designer is 'also' assuming race since humans get a bonus feat at first.</p><p></p><p>in any event, level dependent factors are a much more stable force. If the designer picked something that was not actually concrete and someone finds a way to get into it sooner then good for them! I have no problem with people entering prc's as soon as they can. There are a few different ones around that are designed to be entered before level 5 and I have no problem with that.</p><p></p><p>In any event, are there even any prcs like this that would cause problems by getting into them a level or two sooner? If there are I still think it is a problem with the prc and not the other mechanics.. after all, if it was made properly in the first place (actually requireing something that would be level 6 and later, which feats are not necissarily in that category, they are a soft requirement unless they have hard requirements on them) then there wouldnt be a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course! Because feat chains tend to have hard requirements which put them at higher levels. Even a simple BAB +1 requirement is enough to shut down feat chains for many beginning characters. or needing 5+ ranks of a skill. or a number of other things.</p><p></p><p>still though, which feat chains would break a character wide open to have early on?</p><p></p><p>I actually can only find a few feat chains which the character might be able to get, and of those I would love for a character to be able to be a mounted combat character for real early on <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Maybe one of his flaws could be that anytime he is not on his mount he suffers a -4 penalty to all rolls.</p><p></p><p>Seems like a chance to really make the character more like the character that the player wants to me more than anything else.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The flaw mechanic itself seems fine. It seems more like there is a problem with various other parts of the system not following the system properly (soft costs rather than hard costs) and a lack of appropriate penalties for the flaw (too lax).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The penalty should not come up anymore often than any other feat has a chance to. If it is coming up all of the time then it is likely too strong, unless the all the time effect isnt that bad. The feat for -8 to initiative seems to me like a borderline. it comes up very often, but that is ok, but the penalty is incredibly massive, likely too massive. I'd rather have it be smaller and effect a few other things.</p><p></p><p>But again, someone without that flaw has a much higher modifier than the guy with the flaw, so he definately gave 'something' up.</p><p></p><p>What is 'meaningful' enough is very subjective however. If the penalty is too big then the player would be a fool to choose it, even if it was in character. If it is minor and will never come up then it isnt worth as much as the feat that is gained. It is a balancing act that is complicated, but then so is all sorts of balance for the entire game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd like to see what sort of combos you feel are overpowered to have however. Feat chains and prc's that I might be overlooking <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scion, post: 2445937, member: 5777"] If it was designed to be entered at 6th and the selection of feats was the limiting factor then at least one of those feats must require some factor for higher levels. Otherwise the designer is 'also' assuming race since humans get a bonus feat at first. in any event, level dependent factors are a much more stable force. If the designer picked something that was not actually concrete and someone finds a way to get into it sooner then good for them! I have no problem with people entering prc's as soon as they can. There are a few different ones around that are designed to be entered before level 5 and I have no problem with that. In any event, are there even any prcs like this that would cause problems by getting into them a level or two sooner? If there are I still think it is a problem with the prc and not the other mechanics.. after all, if it was made properly in the first place (actually requireing something that would be level 6 and later, which feats are not necissarily in that category, they are a soft requirement unless they have hard requirements on them) then there wouldnt be a problem. Of course! Because feat chains tend to have hard requirements which put them at higher levels. Even a simple BAB +1 requirement is enough to shut down feat chains for many beginning characters. or needing 5+ ranks of a skill. or a number of other things. still though, which feat chains would break a character wide open to have early on? I actually can only find a few feat chains which the character might be able to get, and of those I would love for a character to be able to be a mounted combat character for real early on ;) Maybe one of his flaws could be that anytime he is not on his mount he suffers a -4 penalty to all rolls. Seems like a chance to really make the character more like the character that the player wants to me more than anything else. The flaw mechanic itself seems fine. It seems more like there is a problem with various other parts of the system not following the system properly (soft costs rather than hard costs) and a lack of appropriate penalties for the flaw (too lax). The penalty should not come up anymore often than any other feat has a chance to. If it is coming up all of the time then it is likely too strong, unless the all the time effect isnt that bad. The feat for -8 to initiative seems to me like a borderline. it comes up very often, but that is ok, but the penalty is incredibly massive, likely too massive. I'd rather have it be smaller and effect a few other things. But again, someone without that flaw has a much higher modifier than the guy with the flaw, so he definately gave 'something' up. What is 'meaningful' enough is very subjective however. If the penalty is too big then the player would be a fool to choose it, even if it was in character. If it is minor and will never come up then it isnt worth as much as the feat that is gained. It is a balancing act that is complicated, but then so is all sorts of balance for the entire game. I'd like to see what sort of combos you feel are overpowered to have however. Feat chains and prc's that I might be overlooking ;) [/QUOTE]
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