Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do You Hint at Damage Resistance?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Harzel" data-source="post: 7186691" data-attributes="member: 6857506"><p>It is something of an aside, but what is the conversation here? Does it start like this?</p><p></p><p>Player(Wizard): I try to move the rock.</p><p>DM: Make an INT check.</p><p></p><p>If so, for me that is problematic in a different way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Um, yes and no? The player should describe a goal and an approach. If the DM thinks that the success of the approach is uncertain, then the DM calls for a check based on the ability (and possibly skill) she judges most important in determining success of the given <em>approach</em>. I would say that the ability(skill) is <em>usually </em>obvious from the approach, but there are certainly exceptions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That seems just fine (as long as parkour is appropriate to the circumstance, which it often isn't even though people desperately want it to be).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with the second part, provided that by "task" you mean "objective" or "goal". There can be different approaches to achieving the same goal. However, a particular approach will generally have a particular mechanic associated with it. And in your examples you do seem to be following a methodology that associates narrative and mechanic "appropriately".</p><p></p><p>But then in the first part of that summary statement, you turn around and say you are ok with dissociating the narrative from the mechanic.</p><p></p><p>I think perhaps dragging in skill checks as examples was a poor choice on my part because they generally start with a narrative element - the player's action declaration, whereas a saving throw starts with a mechanical element.</p><p></p><p>IIUC, your basic point is that one can imagine more ways to mitigate damage from a fireball than just jumping out of the way (or the other things that are generally seen as DEX related). I agree with that, but I just don't see much value in having those as possible narrative elements without appropriate mechanics. And I see narrative that is dissociated from mechanics as a big drawback. I mean, narrative is constrained by mechanics all over the place. In fact, it seems like one of the 'pillars' of DMing is weaving a narrative that is consistent with the mechanics (even though not totally determined by them).</p><p></p><p>But now (because I love arguing with myself), let me guess that your point would be that your narration <em>is</em> consistent with the mechanics because the only thing that gets recorded in the mechanical game state is that the target took 1/2 damage (or whatever); the fact that it was a DEX save actually has no mechanical consequences.* Thinking about this, the only similar situation that comes to mind immediately is damage type - damage type might affect the amount of damage taken, but once that is determined, the type of damage usually makes no difference in the mechanical game state. Despite this, I would never narrate acid damage as something that looked like bludgeoning damage. Would you?</p><p></p><p>OTOH, maybe you have a different reason for thinking that a somewhat dissociated narrative is ok, so I'll stop putting words in your mouth. And I apologize for the fact that 'dissociated' has a pejorative connotation - I'm not trying to be snarky.</p><p></p><p>* This is beginning to remind me of those diagrams, the name for which I cannot remember, about how things bounce back and forth between fiction and game state. And how abstruse the discussions around them became such that they ended up being useless even though at the beginning it seemed like a useful idea. But I digress.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harzel, post: 7186691, member: 6857506"] It is something of an aside, but what is the conversation here? Does it start like this? Player(Wizard): I try to move the rock. DM: Make an INT check. If so, for me that is problematic in a different way. Um, yes and no? The player should describe a goal and an approach. If the DM thinks that the success of the approach is uncertain, then the DM calls for a check based on the ability (and possibly skill) she judges most important in determining success of the given [I]approach[/I]. I would say that the ability(skill) is [I]usually [/I]obvious from the approach, but there are certainly exceptions. That seems just fine (as long as parkour is appropriate to the circumstance, which it often isn't even though people desperately want it to be). I agree with the second part, provided that by "task" you mean "objective" or "goal". There can be different approaches to achieving the same goal. However, a particular approach will generally have a particular mechanic associated with it. And in your examples you do seem to be following a methodology that associates narrative and mechanic "appropriately". But then in the first part of that summary statement, you turn around and say you are ok with dissociating the narrative from the mechanic. I think perhaps dragging in skill checks as examples was a poor choice on my part because they generally start with a narrative element - the player's action declaration, whereas a saving throw starts with a mechanical element. IIUC, your basic point is that one can imagine more ways to mitigate damage from a fireball than just jumping out of the way (or the other things that are generally seen as DEX related). I agree with that, but I just don't see much value in having those as possible narrative elements without appropriate mechanics. And I see narrative that is dissociated from mechanics as a big drawback. I mean, narrative is constrained by mechanics all over the place. In fact, it seems like one of the 'pillars' of DMing is weaving a narrative that is consistent with the mechanics (even though not totally determined by them). But now (because I love arguing with myself), let me guess that your point would be that your narration [I]is[/I] consistent with the mechanics because the only thing that gets recorded in the mechanical game state is that the target took 1/2 damage (or whatever); the fact that it was a DEX save actually has no mechanical consequences.* Thinking about this, the only similar situation that comes to mind immediately is damage type - damage type might affect the amount of damage taken, but once that is determined, the type of damage usually makes no difference in the mechanical game state. Despite this, I would never narrate acid damage as something that looked like bludgeoning damage. Would you? OTOH, maybe you have a different reason for thinking that a somewhat dissociated narrative is ok, so I'll stop putting words in your mouth. And I apologize for the fact that 'dissociated' has a pejorative connotation - I'm not trying to be snarky. * This is beginning to remind me of those diagrams, the name for which I cannot remember, about how things bounce back and forth between fiction and game state. And how abstruse the discussions around them became such that they ended up being useless even though at the beginning it seemed like a useful idea. But I digress. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do You Hint at Damage Resistance?
Top