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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 7188199" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]</p><p></p><p>Again in the last post you assume a lot of things. We already told you that magic item creation was not easy to attain. But once it was attained, it was not that hard either.</p><p></p><p>From the DMG every magic created awards you the same experience that the item would bring you if you found it! So creating magical items was in the rules. It wasn't as hard as you make it IF you are the correct level. The hardest thing in reality was to get to the appropriate level. In fact, it was far easier to make than in 3e where you had to spend your experience to create even simple potions. That is a limiting factor. In 1e, you could go to a pocket time dimension where time was going faster and for the rest of the world, you were gone only for a few minutes! Yes you would need to make a +4 sword just to make it works as a +1 sword on the prime material plane but at that point...</p><p></p><p>More over, not all campaigns were adventure paths. Most of the time, they were kind of episodic, with sometimes years between them. In one campaign, the players got so old that they started a group with the kids of their characters! It was not unusual for me to let 2 or 3 years pass between adventures. <em>Ok, now your funds are running low, and there is this guy which has a strange proposal...</em></p><p></p><p>As for the wish spell you wrote:"The only reasonable way to actually get a night unlimited supply of wishes is to cast them yourself, and if you do you are disabled for 2d4 days (per the spell description). Thus, if wish is used as anything but the last step of item manufacture, it fails, since the next step must be started within 24 hours. "</p><p></p><p>Ishhh... reread the spell correctly. The spell is a better version of the limited wish spell. All that applies to limited wish can be done with the wish spell and more. If you use the wish to duplicate a spell, it won't bring disability. If you use the wish spell to alter reality to : Modify damage sustained by a party, resurect a dead character to life, making the caster and his party escape a dangerous situation by moving/transporting them from one place to an other, the spell will not create disability.</p><p>Disability will occur for anything other than that. Example:" I wish to be stronger" Bang! Your strength goes up permanently by one, then you are disable with a -3 on Strength <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />erm<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> and 2-8 days of fatigue. But you can do it.</p><p>In fact, most of the time, the limited wish was used to duplicate spells that the caster didn't have. The wish spell was used the same way sometimes. </p><p></p><p>As for the end game... Tables in the PHB were not stopping at level 20. There are table for MU 29... Illusionist 26th... I don't know where you got that idea that there was an endgame... You're talking about a game where the players could ascend into godhood. They were supposed to become the stuff of legends. Do not limit yourself with what you have known. Go beyond, imagine what can be done. In greek mythology, some heroes went to hell and back. They defeated gods! Your players can be the Odysseus, the king Arthur, the Morgan la Fey, the Merlin, The lancelot, The Grey Mouser, The Richard, The Kalan, The Conan, The Legolas or whatever they wish if you let them to. Sometimes, they can. At other times, fate brings them low. </p><p></p><p>I find it distasteful when I hear:"Ho... we're level 14, time to retire." What a bland, tasteless and almost coward way to end a campaing. If the goals were reached, fine. We won! Sound the victory cheer! But where do we go from here? Heroes never retire for long in a fantasy world. I admit that high level adventures are hard to create. But it can be done. Island of the ape, Bloostone pass, and a lot more were written just with high level characters in mind. You can challenge your players in many ways. </p><p></p><p>From my point of view, you DM was putting additional limits in your games that were not there. If for every victory you had to second guess if there was death trap waiting for the group, that was a sad thing indeed. Sometimes, it's fun to have an easy victory. Players like that. I like that too. </p><p></p><p>Be fair, Be strict, but don't be tyranical. Yes the treasure can be trapped, but not always. Dard was found in the mud, but the ceiling didn't fell on Gandalf's head because of that. Sometimes, a good battle need to be rewarded. Again, reward clever play and thinking.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 7188199, member: 6855114"] [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] Again in the last post you assume a lot of things. We already told you that magic item creation was not easy to attain. But once it was attained, it was not that hard either. From the DMG every magic created awards you the same experience that the item would bring you if you found it! So creating magical items was in the rules. It wasn't as hard as you make it IF you are the correct level. The hardest thing in reality was to get to the appropriate level. In fact, it was far easier to make than in 3e where you had to spend your experience to create even simple potions. That is a limiting factor. In 1e, you could go to a pocket time dimension where time was going faster and for the rest of the world, you were gone only for a few minutes! Yes you would need to make a +4 sword just to make it works as a +1 sword on the prime material plane but at that point... More over, not all campaigns were adventure paths. Most of the time, they were kind of episodic, with sometimes years between them. In one campaign, the players got so old that they started a group with the kids of their characters! It was not unusual for me to let 2 or 3 years pass between adventures. [I]Ok, now your funds are running low, and there is this guy which has a strange proposal...[/I] As for the wish spell you wrote:"The only reasonable way to actually get a night unlimited supply of wishes is to cast them yourself, and if you do you are disabled for 2d4 days (per the spell description). Thus, if wish is used as anything but the last step of item manufacture, it fails, since the next step must be started within 24 hours. " Ishhh... reread the spell correctly. The spell is a better version of the limited wish spell. All that applies to limited wish can be done with the wish spell and more. If you use the wish to duplicate a spell, it won't bring disability. If you use the wish spell to alter reality to : Modify damage sustained by a party, resurect a dead character to life, making the caster and his party escape a dangerous situation by moving/transporting them from one place to an other, the spell will not create disability. Disability will occur for anything other than that. Example:" I wish to be stronger" Bang! Your strength goes up permanently by one, then you are disable with a -3 on Strength (:erm:) and 2-8 days of fatigue. But you can do it. In fact, most of the time, the limited wish was used to duplicate spells that the caster didn't have. The wish spell was used the same way sometimes. As for the end game... Tables in the PHB were not stopping at level 20. There are table for MU 29... Illusionist 26th... I don't know where you got that idea that there was an endgame... You're talking about a game where the players could ascend into godhood. They were supposed to become the stuff of legends. Do not limit yourself with what you have known. Go beyond, imagine what can be done. In greek mythology, some heroes went to hell and back. They defeated gods! Your players can be the Odysseus, the king Arthur, the Morgan la Fey, the Merlin, The lancelot, The Grey Mouser, The Richard, The Kalan, The Conan, The Legolas or whatever they wish if you let them to. Sometimes, they can. At other times, fate brings them low. I find it distasteful when I hear:"Ho... we're level 14, time to retire." What a bland, tasteless and almost coward way to end a campaing. If the goals were reached, fine. We won! Sound the victory cheer! But where do we go from here? Heroes never retire for long in a fantasy world. I admit that high level adventures are hard to create. But it can be done. Island of the ape, Bloostone pass, and a lot more were written just with high level characters in mind. You can challenge your players in many ways. From my point of view, you DM was putting additional limits in your games that were not there. If for every victory you had to second guess if there was death trap waiting for the group, that was a sad thing indeed. Sometimes, it's fun to have an easy victory. Players like that. I like that too. Be fair, Be strict, but don't be tyranical. Yes the treasure can be trapped, but not always. Dard was found in the mud, but the ceiling didn't fell on Gandalf's head because of that. Sometimes, a good battle need to be rewarded. Again, reward clever play and thinking. [/QUOTE]
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