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Does 5e need its own, original TOMB OF HORRORS?
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7519669" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p>I voted "No".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was designed to test PLAYER skill and PLAYER knowledge as well as PLAYER patience and caution. It wasn't designed to "challenge PC's" as the primary concern. If it was to be done today, for 5e, it would get lambasted and roasted six ways from Sunday about how "horribly unfair it is" and that it "breaks all the rules" and that the PC's are basically "unable to use their skills, spells and abilities" to overcome the challenges.</p><p></p><p>***Shouldn't have to but.... !! SPOILERS !! ***</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An example would be the first few feet into the actual tomb (assuming PC's aren't dead from the two false entrances). Players will likely think "Oh, I get it! A path! This is easy!", then the first (and maybe second) PC's in front fall into a pit trap with poisoned spikes and need to make saves vs Poison, at some ridiculous penalty, or die instantly. Equate that penalty to 5e and we are looking at, oh, DC 25 or there about? Maybe one or two points more? That's potentially two dead PC's in the first 10' or 20' of the adventure! Heaven help any who get farther in! I mean, can you imagine the rage leveled at the DM who says "Ok, Lord Balken steps through the misty doorway...and.... What's everyone else doing?". Players would (if my experience is anything to go by) sit expectedly waiting for the DM to describe what happens to Lord Balken. When this doesn't happen, they would be...uncomfortable. At this point many groups I DM'ed this module for do the same freaking thing; everyone goes in through the misty door. Every. Single. One. Nobody tries to use Telepathy, or Contact Higher Plane, or Commune, or a Crystal Ball, nothing. Just "Well, I guess we all go in then". The ONLY group to do this was my original group. Everyone else who thought they were "expert players" because they had high-level PC's? Nope. And then the kick to the nutz: "Right. You all step in, one by one. You are all in the same dusty room...buck naked. Now what?". The cries of anguish and mutterings of "unfair adventure" or "cheating" were hard to ignore.</p><p></p><p>Thing is, attitudes and expectation of play was a LOT different back when I ran this (the mid/late 80's). Back then, there were players with high level characters, and there were players with high level characters they didn't earn (re: "Monty Haul" campaigns). Thing was...it was pretty easy to determine where someone was on the Monty Haul Scale of things. </p><p></p><p>But today's games are focused more on "sharing a story" in order to have fun as opposed to "overcoming challenges" to have fun. Tomb of Horrors for 1e was most definitely designed for the later. It simply wouldn't work for a modern day audience. IMNSHO, of course.</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7519669, member: 45197"] Hiya! I voted "No". It was designed to test PLAYER skill and PLAYER knowledge as well as PLAYER patience and caution. It wasn't designed to "challenge PC's" as the primary concern. If it was to be done today, for 5e, it would get lambasted and roasted six ways from Sunday about how "horribly unfair it is" and that it "breaks all the rules" and that the PC's are basically "unable to use their skills, spells and abilities" to overcome the challenges. ***Shouldn't have to but.... !! SPOILERS !! *** An example would be the first few feet into the actual tomb (assuming PC's aren't dead from the two false entrances). Players will likely think "Oh, I get it! A path! This is easy!", then the first (and maybe second) PC's in front fall into a pit trap with poisoned spikes and need to make saves vs Poison, at some ridiculous penalty, or die instantly. Equate that penalty to 5e and we are looking at, oh, DC 25 or there about? Maybe one or two points more? That's potentially two dead PC's in the first 10' or 20' of the adventure! Heaven help any who get farther in! I mean, can you imagine the rage leveled at the DM who says "Ok, Lord Balken steps through the misty doorway...and.... What's everyone else doing?". Players would (if my experience is anything to go by) sit expectedly waiting for the DM to describe what happens to Lord Balken. When this doesn't happen, they would be...uncomfortable. At this point many groups I DM'ed this module for do the same freaking thing; everyone goes in through the misty door. Every. Single. One. Nobody tries to use Telepathy, or Contact Higher Plane, or Commune, or a Crystal Ball, nothing. Just "Well, I guess we all go in then". The ONLY group to do this was my original group. Everyone else who thought they were "expert players" because they had high-level PC's? Nope. And then the kick to the nutz: "Right. You all step in, one by one. You are all in the same dusty room...buck naked. Now what?". The cries of anguish and mutterings of "unfair adventure" or "cheating" were hard to ignore. Thing is, attitudes and expectation of play was a LOT different back when I ran this (the mid/late 80's). Back then, there were players with high level characters, and there were players with high level characters they didn't earn (re: "Monty Haul" campaigns). Thing was...it was pretty easy to determine where someone was on the Monty Haul Scale of things. But today's games are focused more on "sharing a story" in order to have fun as opposed to "overcoming challenges" to have fun. Tomb of Horrors for 1e was most definitely designed for the later. It simply wouldn't work for a modern day audience. IMNSHO, of course. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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