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Does Healing Word require a Healing Surge? Forked Thread: Ranger beasts
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<blockquote data-quote="Milambus" data-source="post: 4597186" data-attributes="member: 74238"><p>I have always played that the surge must be spent for any healing to occur also, however a post in the forked thread spurred me to actually read the power's description more carefully.</p><p></p><p>And I'm fully willing to admit that this is rules parsing at its best/worst =)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, if they do not spend the Healing surge they still would not gain the healing from the surge itself, but they could gain the additional healing from the power being used.</p><p></p><p>Example #1:</p><p>Healing Word cast, target spends a surge, target regains:</p><p>Surge value + 1d6 + Caster's WIS modifier (+ any other bonuses) hit points</p><p></p><p>Example #2:</p><p>Heaing Word cast, target choices not to spend a healing surge, target regains:</p><p>1d6 + Caster's WIS modifier (+ any other bonuses) hit points</p><p></p><p>In the second example the target gains the same benefit as in the first, except he does not gain the HPs from the surge itself.</p><p></p><p>And of course, in either case the Cleric has still spent one of his uses of Healing Word for that encounter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can certainly understand why you would read it this way, I have always done so before today myself. However, are we sure this is the correct reading for the power?</p><p></p><p>Perhaps I'm too much of a programmer, but this is what I see when I really parse the effect line:</p><p></p><p>Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.</p><p></p><p>"The target can spend a healing surge" The target can spend a surge to regain some hps. They are not required to spend it though. So they can gain either their surge value in HP or 0 HP.</p><p></p><p>"and" This means "in addition to to previous action do this". </p><p></p><p>"regain an additional 1d6 hit points." The target regains more HPs in addition to the HPs they gained from the prior action (of spending a surge or not.)</p><p></p><p>I can see how the use of the word "additional" causes some problems, however adding 1d6 to 0 would still be 1d6. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have always played it this way also, but I as I said above I was inspired to reread (and heavily parse) the power again today. And truthfully, I was surprised when I was able to read the power the way I am now.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To me, the use of the word "and" simply means that the power has two effects, A and B. In this case A is "can spend a healing surge" and B is "regain an additional 1d6 hit points." Neither effect are dependant upon the other effect. "Additional" is used in B simply to clarify that the HPs regained from B to not replace ths HPs gained from spending the healing surge (A), such as in a Healing Potion or powers like the Paladin's Lay On Hands.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that would make it more clear. However, if the designers intention was the require the spending of the healing surge to gain the additional 1d6 they should have probably written the power more like "The target can spend a healing surge. If they do, they gain an additional 1d6 hit points." The way this is worded, the two effects are clearly linked. =)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure you can. </p><p></p><p>0 + X = X</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Attack powers have a clear seperation between thing that require the attack to land (listed as "Hit") and those that happen regardless if the attack lands ("Effect" lines).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm, this is an interesting case. In fact I've gone back and forth on this a few times already since reading it. But for now I'm gonna weasel my way out, and point out the fact that Resourceful Presence says it gives a "bonus" and bonuses are defined in PHB. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is not how the effect line of Haling Surge is worded though. In fact the way you state the power does not make Y dependant upon X. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cure Light Wounds does not require the spending of a healing surge, so I assume you meant Healing Word or some other power that does.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All this requires is that the power being used is a Cleric power, and that the power have the "Healing" keyword. Nothing more. So, yes even if the target of a Healing Word did not spend a healing surge they would still gain the clerics WIS modifier HPs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Milambus, post: 4597186, member: 74238"] I have always played that the surge must be spent for any healing to occur also, however a post in the forked thread spurred me to actually read the power's description more carefully. And I'm fully willing to admit that this is rules parsing at its best/worst =) No, if they do not spend the Healing surge they still would not gain the healing from the surge itself, but they could gain the additional healing from the power being used. Example #1: Healing Word cast, target spends a surge, target regains: Surge value + 1d6 + Caster's WIS modifier (+ any other bonuses) hit points Example #2: Heaing Word cast, target choices not to spend a healing surge, target regains: 1d6 + Caster's WIS modifier (+ any other bonuses) hit points In the second example the target gains the same benefit as in the first, except he does not gain the HPs from the surge itself. And of course, in either case the Cleric has still spent one of his uses of Healing Word for that encounter. I can certainly understand why you would read it this way, I have always done so before today myself. However, are we sure this is the correct reading for the power? Perhaps I'm too much of a programmer, but this is what I see when I really parse the effect line: Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points. "The target can spend a healing surge" The target can spend a surge to regain some hps. They are not required to spend it though. So they can gain either their surge value in HP or 0 HP. "and" This means "in addition to to previous action do this". "regain an additional 1d6 hit points." The target regains more HPs in addition to the HPs they gained from the prior action (of spending a surge or not.) I can see how the use of the word "additional" causes some problems, however adding 1d6 to 0 would still be 1d6. I have always played it this way also, but I as I said above I was inspired to reread (and heavily parse) the power again today. And truthfully, I was surprised when I was able to read the power the way I am now. To me, the use of the word "and" simply means that the power has two effects, A and B. In this case A is "can spend a healing surge" and B is "regain an additional 1d6 hit points." Neither effect are dependant upon the other effect. "Additional" is used in B simply to clarify that the HPs regained from B to not replace ths HPs gained from spending the healing surge (A), such as in a Healing Potion or powers like the Paladin's Lay On Hands. I agree that would make it more clear. However, if the designers intention was the require the spending of the healing surge to gain the additional 1d6 they should have probably written the power more like "The target can spend a healing surge. If they do, they gain an additional 1d6 hit points." The way this is worded, the two effects are clearly linked. =) Sure you can. 0 + X = X Attack powers have a clear seperation between thing that require the attack to land (listed as "Hit") and those that happen regardless if the attack lands ("Effect" lines). Hmm, this is an interesting case. In fact I've gone back and forth on this a few times already since reading it. But for now I'm gonna weasel my way out, and point out the fact that Resourceful Presence says it gives a "bonus" and bonuses are defined in PHB. This is not how the effect line of Haling Surge is worded though. In fact the way you state the power does not make Y dependant upon X. Cure Light Wounds does not require the spending of a healing surge, so I assume you meant Healing Word or some other power that does. All this requires is that the power being used is a Cleric power, and that the power have the "Healing" keyword. Nothing more. So, yes even if the target of a Healing Word did not spend a healing surge they would still gain the clerics WIS modifier HPs. [/QUOTE]
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